Highlands 7 Covington Holy Cross 0

[mexitucky]

Sophomore Max Farris records his first career hat trick as Highlands throttled 10 man Holy Cross.

 

Trailing 1-0 on a headed goal by Alex Ford, Holy Cross defender brought down Caymon Stevie in the box and was shown an EXTREMELY harsh straight red. Stevie missed the ensuing penalty, but recovered on Highlands next possession and latched on to a long diagonal pass to the outside of the 18. He passed it back to the edge of the 18 for Farris to one time and curve it out of reach from the goalie. That took the game to 2 nil and it stayed that way through the half.

 

Highlands ramped up the pressure in the second half to put the game to bed. Mikey Penrod scored 12 minutes into the second half on a low screamer from just outside the 18. 1 minute later Carter Holmes dribbled through center defense to go 1 v 1 w/ the goalie to make it 4 to Nil. Farris got his brace 5 minutes later. Adrian Mills followed up with his first varsity goal showing great patience in the box. With 10 minutes to go, Farris added his third to complete the hat trick.

[bothways]

Sophomore Max Farris records his first career hat trick as Highlands throttled 10 man Holy Cross.

 

Trailing 1-0 on a headed goal by Alex Ford, Holy Cross defender brought down Caymon Stevie in the box and was shown an EXTREMELY harsh straight red. Stevie missed the ensuing penalty, but recovered on Highlands next possession and latched on to a long diagonal pass to the outside of the 18. He passed it back to the edge of the 18 for Farris to one time and curve it out of reach from the goalie. That took the game to 2 nil and it stayed that way through the half.

 

Highlands ramped up the pressure in the second half to put the game to bed. Mikey Penrod scored 12 minutes into the second half on a low screamer from just outside the 18. 1 minute later Carter Holmes dribbled through center defense to go 1 v 1 w/ the goalie to make it 4 to Nil. Farris got his brace 5 minutes later. Adrian Mills followed up with his first varsity goal showing great patience in the box. With 10 minutes to go, Farris added his third to complete the hat trick.

Why was it a harsh red?

[mexitucky]

Why was it a harsh red?

 

Caymon was pulled down just as he entered the box, so it should have been a penalty and a yellow. It was NOT a clear goal scoring opportunity and he was moving to his right, not directly at goal. He was not completely wrong giving a straight red, but he could have given a yellow more easily. It is a matter of perspective at that point and speed.

[bothways]

Caymon was pulled down just as he entered the box, so it should have been a penalty and a yellow. It was NOT a clear goal scoring opportunity and he was moving to his right, not directly at goal. He was not completely wrong giving a straight red, but he could have given a yellow more easily. It is a matter of perspective at that point and speed.

 

So it wasn’t really that harsh? I guess what I’m getting at is was there anyone going to stop him from shooting or anything if not for the foul? Was he in a position where he got would not have been a likely scoring opportunity? If no and yes I’m not sure what can be argued to say it was incorrect.

 

I think it’s always easier for the ref to give a yellow because people feel less upset by it, but it doesn’t make it right.

 

Is there video? I’d be curious in seeing it. The World Cup has me all kinds of confused on the consistency between various leagues.

[mexitucky]

So it wasn’t really that harsh? I guess what I’m getting at is was there anyone going to stop him from shooting or anything if not for the foul? Was he in a position where he got would not have been a likely scoring opportunity? If no I’m not sure what can be argued to say it was incorrect.

 

I think it’s always easier for the ref to give a yellow because people feel less upset by it, but it doesn’t make it right.

 

Is there video? I’d be curious in seeing it. The World Cup has me all kinds of confused on the consistency between various leagues.

 

Basically, you need to understand the sequence. Caymon was away at goal and saw the defender coming in with a potential angle coming off of his right shoulder w/ momentum. He slowed down at the top of the 18 and tried to cut in to his right after the defender's momentum carried him past Caymon. Caymon beat him and was fouled. However, his move was lateral and there was another defender about 2 yards to his right. He would have gotten a shot off, but just as easily, had he taken another touch, the defender would have been there to create interference.

[bothways]

Basically, you need to understand the sequence. Caymon was away at goal and saw the defender coming in with a potential angle coming off of his right shoulder w/ momentum. He slowed down at the top of the 18 and tried to cut in to his right after the defender's momentum carried him past Caymon. Caymon beat him and was fouled. However, his move was lateral and there was another defender about 2 yards to his right. He would have gotten a shot off, but just as easily, had he taken another touch, the defender would have been there to create interference.

 

I guess I still don’t see it as harsh based on the description. You’re putting a lot of what ifs on a play where to all descriptions it sounds like he was on goal and if not for the foul has a real chance. And if it’s the kid I’m thinking of he’s a pretty real threat.

 

Red cards are unfortunate and the goal scoring opportunity ones always feel all the more so because just a few minor details being changed and the foul could be nothing more than a foul. But that’s the game.

[mexitucky]

Is the Holy Cross player able to appeal the suspension that follows?

[bothways]

Is the Holy Cross player able to appeal the suspension that follows?

 

No idea.

[mexitucky]

I guess I still don’t see it as harsh based on the description. You’re putting a lot of what ifs on a play where to all descriptions it sounds like he was on goal and if not for the foul has a real chance. And if it’s the kid I’m thinking of he’s a pretty real threat.

 

Red cards are unfortunate and the goal scoring opportunity ones always feel all the more so because just a few minor details being changed and the foul could be nothing more than a foul. But that’s the game.

 

I'm not describing this well. In my mind, a straight red in situations similar to this is where a player is at full momentum towards the goal and is brought down on the way to goal. You don't see it often where a player is fouled in the midst of changing direction after stopping his movement towards goal and another defender has entered the play.

[bothways]

I'm not describing this well. In my mind, a straight red in situations similar to this is where a player is at full momentum towards the goal and is brought down on the way to goal. You don't see it often where a player is fouled in the midst of changing direction after stopping his movement towards goal and another defender has entered the play.

Fair enough. That’s why I wanted to see video if it was out there. From the description though it sounds like some of the reds we see in the MLS on a somewhat regular basis, for what that’s worth.

[thatguy404]

I wasn't there so it's hard to say. According to the new rule, if the Holy Cross player attempted to play the ball and the penalty was awarded, a yellow card should've been given. The description says pulled down so who knows. However, a red card is only given if:

 

1. The player made no attempt to play the ball in the box i.e. pulling someone down by their jersey, grabbing player and pulling them down.

 

2. The foul is the denial of a obvious goal scoring opportunity outside of the penalty area.

 

It's subjective and very hard to tell not being able to see it but it could've been harsh to issue a red card if the HC player made a genuine attempt at the ball in the box.

Edited August 15, 2018 by thatguy404
Spelling

[MyOpin]

IFAB changed this a while ago ... stating that straight red for DOGSO was too harsh ... essentially a triple punishment ... player removal, pk, and one game suspension. Ref can still issue a straight Red for excessive, deliberate, etc. foul but a normal foul in a DOGSO situation calls for a YC.

 

Here's an excerpt from NFHS on new rules for this year:

 

Soccer Rules Changes - 2018-19

By NFHS on February 20, 2018

 

12-8-1f, 15 (NEW): 1. A player, coach or bench personnel shall be cautioned (yellow card) for:

 

...3. a player commits a foul, outside the penalty area, attempting to deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, and the goal is not scored; or 4. a player commits a foul, inside the penalty area, while not attempting to play the ball, and the goal is not scored.

 

 

Assuming KHSAA is following NFHS (and I think they do) ... I'd agree with Mex on this one.

[bothways]

A pull or grab would not be an attempt to play the ball. I do know that. I was able to download the FIFA Laws for free.

 

No idea where to get the high school rules.

[bothways]

IFAB changed this a while ago ... stating that straight red for DOGSO was too harsh ... essentially a triple punishment ... player removal, pk, and one game suspension. Ref can still issue a straight Red for excessive, deliberate, etc. foul but a normal foul in a DOGSO situation calls for a YC.

 

Here's an excerpt from NFHS on new rules for this year:

 

Soccer Rules Changes - 2018-19

By NFHS on February 20, 2018

 

12-8-1f, 15 (NEW): 1. A player, coach or bench personnel shall be cautioned (yellow card) for:

 

...3. a player commits a foul, outside the penalty area, attempting to deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, and the goal is not scored; or 4. a player commits a foul, inside the penalty area, while not attempting to play the ball, and the goal is not scored.

 

 

Assuming KHSAA is following NFHS (and I think they do) ... I'd agree with Mex on this one.

 

Why would you agree with Mex, by his description it was a pull? So it would be a red card. You even referenced the IFAB laws which specifically state this.

[MyOpin]

I stated that IFAB changed the way it looked at DOGSO a long time ago. Others have followed their lead. I think what's applicable to this high school situation is the guidance NFHS has provided. A player shall be cautioned (YC) when he/she commits a foul outside the penalty area in a DOGSO situation. And a player shall be cautioned (YC) when he/she commits a foul inside the penalty area, while not attempting to play the ball in a DOGSO situation. Mex's description of the foul and the fact that there was a PK, sounds like "a foul inside the penalty area, while not attempting to play the ball"... so YC. And therefore straight seems too harsh.

 

In addition, Mex doesn't even think it was a DOGSO situation to start with ... so straight Red seems harsh even before the change in the rules.

 

Foul, yellow card, and PK (if determined inside the box) seem appropriate.