Anyone attend Cincy Development Academy meeting?

[that's what she said]

Put me down in the "not surprised at all column" the NT rosters are being filled by players going out of the DAs, especially on the girls side where it is very, very rare for them to play in Europe as teenagers. My point in asking if the DAs will be successful (success being defined by producing players that win meaningful WC games) was not what programs will the players filling the NT team rosters come from but will these rosters in the next cycle actually win WC pool play games that enable them to advance and win games in the elimination rounds? At this point this should be the goal and expectation of every US soccer fan, anything less is a disappointment.

 

Love this quote from nkysoccerparent.

"Athletes don't have to give up high school to play D1 football, basketball, or baseball."

I think you can also add volleyball, softball, track, hockey, etc, etc? Makes a ton of sense to ask this of the soccer DAs, why do soccer players have to give up playing HS soccer when athletes playing every other sport or almost every other sport are being offered D1 scholarships while continuing to play HS?

[Sir!]

Put me down in the "not surprised at all column" the NT rosters are being filled by players going out of the DAs' date=' especially on the girls side where it is very, very rare for them to play in Europe as teenagers. My point in asking if the DAs will be successful (success being defined by producing players that win meaningful WC games) was not what programs will the players filling the NT team rosters come from but will these rosters in the next cycle actually win WC pool play games that enable them to advance and win games in the elimination rounds? At this point this should be the goal and expectation of every US soccer fan, anything less is a disappointment.[/quote']

 

I think you'll find that many, if not most, of the teenage Americans (men) currently playing abroad (like Pulisic) are DA products (excluding those who were raised and played their early youth footbal abroad, but can claim American citizenship... like Julian Green). On the women's side not a single DA player has made a NT pool or played D1 soccer yet, but that's because the DA is just starting on the girls side.

 

I expect the US to continue to be strong on the Women's side, even with other countries getting stronger as more girls start playing (we had a head-start on many countries on the women's side, believe it or not). I expect the US to keep improving on the men's side, not so much as a result of the DA, but because the DA funnel is being fed players with better technique and knowledge of the game from the broader base of the youth soccer structure that has been steadily growing in numbers and improving is quality of training/coaching. You're absolutely correct that the expectation should be regularly getting out of group play. The USMNT has qualified for 7 straight WCs - it's a shame we're worried about qualifying this cycle but Bruce has got it (I hope).

Edited February 14, 2017 by Sir!

[Sir!]

My personal thoughts on DA vs HS+Club:

 

1) If a player is good enough to play college soccer and plays for a quality HS team and a high level Club team it won't hurt them to not play DA... but they may have to work a bit harder to recruit themselves and there may be fewer opportunities to play in front of college coaches. On the flip side, the best player on a very good team gets more chances to show (be noticed) and sees more of the ball in games. Seeing more of the ball also creates more opportunities to get stronger, but also creates more chances to get hurt.

 

2) If my HS team was a strong team in the Region and played a challenging schedule, my coach good enough to keep developing me as a player, and I enjoyed my team mates then I'd probably play HS. Take out one of these and I might play DA. Take out two of these and I'm definitely playing DA... assuming I'm good enough to make the DA team.

 

3) If I'm not "ate up" with soccer, then I'm not playing DA for a chance at a D1 scholarship. If it feels like work to play youth sports, it doesn't get any easier playing high level college soccer. Better to enjoy the HS experience playing for "school" than to miss the chance and end up burned out and playing maybe one year in college.

[that's what she said]

Sir!, the one thing in your post #17 I would comment on is you point out that most US male teenagers currently playing in Europe are DA products (except those raised over there). Huge difference playing in Europe as a teenager Vs playing for a US DA. Question is will Pulisic and a few others be good enough to carry the MNT to a WC qt final, maybe a semi final berth? IMO, we need a whole lot more teenagers moving to Europe asap.

 

Love your post #18, agree with a lot of your comments. I have to wonder if the players and their parents are hearing anything even close to this at the DA informational meetings.

[futbalfan]

Very interesting thread and many valid points. Some additional ones to consider

1) Comparing status/state of men and women soccer at almost any level but especially at College and Professional levels is an apples and radish type discussion. Both come from the garden but worlds apart for many factors mentioned below as well as others.

 

2) You may have noticed in the past 5-6 years a reduction in the dominance the US WNT has had. This is in large part due to the increase in the international support for women soccer including professional leagues that didn't exist 10-15 years ago and the addition of man club teams adding womens. For example , the FA Women's Premier League wasn't even founded until 1992. 100 years after men. As these and the women programs at those clubs are still maturing the advantage of attending them to young US women is realistically non-existing/not pragmatic or advantageous. Therefore; for US women looking for top organizations, leagues and competition, the US is still the platform for their development (for now).

 

3) I would speculate that the WNT leaders have been noticing this trend and the addition of the women's DA program is a recognition of that. It is primarily targeted at young women/girls with goals and abilities to play at the WNT level (WNT or professional). This is the primary purpose although a secondary benefit is the development of players to play in college.

 

4) One of the great (well deserving) benefits of Prop IX is the increase in funded college women soccer programs. This provides a great opportunity for these young women to continue to play the beautiful game along with fulfilling their academic goals. That said, college is for now a stepping stone to professional womens programs. The reason being, like with the DA program there is no platform for u18-22 outside of college for women in the US.

 

5) Juxtaposed with that is the men who have club teams (primarily abroad) that take them from u18 to u22 (aka the junior/reserve teams). Although; we do have college players that make it up to our MNT, in there IMHO, is the reason we continue to have the results we have and the USSF investing and promoting the men's DA program is their attempt to address it. However; I firmly believe they realize that as long as the $$$ for men's soccer is overseas so will the talent and the best players we have produced are those that have spent significant time oversees and Jergen got this.

 

6) The "victim" in all this are the US based men's teams. "How in the world are they victims?" you ask. The victims are the u18-22 players as their platforms have reduce dramatically due to the across the board reduction in men's college soccer. Added to that, unlike with the women's college program, is the fact that a large percentage of college rosters are filled with non-US nationality players. The average D1 men's team will have 30-40% of their game day roster (22-28 players) filled with non US nationality players.

 

 

The point I'm leading up to is that over time I can see the MNT improve as more US based players go abroad coupled with continued improvements in us based programs (DAs; especially those that are MLS academies) as the money increases with the increase popularity (see FC Cincy as small examples) and the academies take the form of those abroad (see below more on what that means). At the same time, I can see the WNT teams dominance continue to decrease over the same time as the development of women's programs (clubs and PLs) abroad continue to improve and exand. I also, believe that there is a lot of WNT hopes on the success of the DAs which means they are designed, and begin to be executed like an oversees based and some us men's P/MLS club academies.

 

That means players are identified at a young age and provided soccer training year around with academics included within the program (i.e. schooling is at the academy). So, this whole argument about why do DAs force players to give up playing HS ball? It's all about money isn't it? Although I'm sure in part it is, it's certainly not the goal or objective of the USSF for these program and can see them easily moving in the direction of how those oversees academies are designed. I assure you that the requirement of playing year around is just the begining. If you are interested in understanding what other things might one day be involved in playing for a DA I would ready up on how youth academies are run oversees (any EPL, Bundeslegia or La Liga) and you if think "no way" that will happen here be aware it already exist for boys at some MLS academies such as Philadelphia.

 

So, if one of my granddaughters' aspirations were to play professional soccer one day or for one of the top national college programs and they are sitting here at 12/13 I personally would be steering her toward a DA program yet always making it clear stepping out is always an option at anytime without question.

 

If they thoroughly enjoyed the sport and had the skill level but enjoys playing with school friends and aspirations are to one day play in college (any level) I would be recommending her play with a local club which will provide her ample opportunities to play in college and enjoy her 4 years of HS ball.

 

NOTE: As with life, it's always easier to take less responsibility than it is to get more. So, dropping out of a DA academy team it 100 fold easier than trying to get on one. So, if my kids were on the fence I would steer them toward DA sooner rather than later for that simple reason.

[Sir!]

Arguably girls have greater opportunities in college soccer; and boys (unsurprisingly) better opportunities to play professionally. I wonder how much this reflected in advocacy/marketing for the DAs on the boys and girls side. For an admittedly limited comparison that highlights the differences:

 

D1 College Soccer:

 

There are about 320 D1 women's soccer programs, each with up to 14 full scholarships per team = up to 4,480 full (equivalent) sholarships, depending of course on funding.

 

There are something like 205 men's D1 programs, each with up to 9.9 full scholarships per team = 2,030 full (equivalent) scholarships, again recognizing that all are not funded.

 

So... there are more than twice the number of D1 scholarships available for women and (at least at this point) fewer foreign players competing for those spots. Advantage to the ladies.

 

Professional - Domestic, Top League:

NWSL has 10 teams. Salary minimum =$7,200, salary ceiling =$39,700 and team salary cap =$278,000 (doesn't include allocated national team players).

 

MLS has 22 teams. Salary minimum =$65,000 ($53,000 for reserve team) and team salary cap =$3.8 million.

 

So... Minimum salary for an MLS reserve player is higher than the salary ceiling for an NWSL starter and the salary cap for a single team in the MLS is higher than the entire league's salary cap for NWSL. Advantage the gents.

[Sir!]

@futbalfan... very good points and insight. I agree that we'll likely continue to see an increase in foreign players on women's college rosters. We might need some kind of border adjustment tax or that deficit will continue to grow.

[futbalfan]

@futbalfan... very good points and insight. I agree that we'll likely continue to see an increase in foreign players on women's college rosters. We might need some kind of border adjustment tax or that deficit will continue to grow.

 

I didn't raise the whole scholarship issue but your info is dead on and although this is not an issue for women in college at this point I do see it moving in that direction in that the largest amount (> 50%) of athletic scholarship money on average for D1 men's teams is given to non US nationality players. I used to be pretty ok with that as I was more interested in seeing improvement in college play from when I played college ball (70s). However; I guess with age I've become a bit more against it (conservative if i can use that term this day in age) given those scholys (in part) are paid for with tax payer dollars. Sort of goes to your "border adjustment tax" joke. I definitely would like to see more limitations placed on colleges in terms of scholy money awarded non citizens. Not an outright ban but limitations similar to what pro leagues do on # of foreign players. Relevance to this forum is that as previously stated the trend for women is in that direction based on DI - D3 roster stats I saw back in the Fall. It's years away from being an issue for women college players but is going in that direction.

[Truthwilliams55]

I'll be the first to admit I know very little about soccer. However, maybe 1 or 2 of these local players ever play in the Olympics in the next 30 years. That's if 1 or 2 are really lucky! My guess is that very few ever even have the opportunity to play 4 years with a fully paid Division 1 scholarship.

 

Go play for your school with your friends. If you're any good, the college coaches will find you. Save your money and put it in a 529 plan. I feel like these soccer places are just a money maker selling a dream. Chances are, the only way you ever make a living with soccer, is getting a job doing soccer training and you start selling the dream.

[that's what she said]

Apologize for temporarily kidnapping the thread, but after watching the Champions League this week, wow the amount of really good young players making an impact on their teams in Europe is unbelievable. As an example, Bayer Leverkusen average age for their starting lineup on Tuesday was 23 yrs old. Hate to say it but the US on the mens side appear to be falling even further behind in developing world class players. May be a long stretch of 3 and done WC results...if we even qualify.

[futbalfan]

I had a discussion regarding the impact of DA selection results on a couple OH teams and wondering the same for NKY teams most specifically on their Varisty rosters. Is there a list of players who made the DA Academy (not pre-academy) from NKY? Just curious on what teams may have been impact given the amount of scare that was made about this earlier in the year.

[EasyEdge]

I am curious of everyone's thoughts after the inaugural session of the Development Academy comes to a close. did it work out the way you thought? Did it / will it have an impact on High School soccer?

 

just curious to what thoughts are out there

[nkysoccerparent]

In KY the impact was negligible at the varsity level this year. Probably had a bigger impact on JV teams, which lost 8th and 9th graders to the DA. Most of the top upperclassman played H.S. and chose pre DA. Some had committed to a school at the next level and didn't need the DA.

 

IMO the full impact has yet to be felt and becomes slightly larger each of the next couple years. Players are much more likely to give up H.S. soccer if they have never played with their school and made relationships. Take 3-4 of the top players in NKY from each grade, its certainly going to make a difference. Once 12-14 girls are no longer playing high school, it will be difficult for NKY to win a state title (until Lexington or Louisville add a DA).

[mexitucky]

Apologize for temporarily kidnapping the thread' date=' but after watching the Champions League this week, wow the amount of really good young players making an impact on their teams in Europe is unbelievable. As an example, Bayer Leverkusen average age for their starting lineup on Tuesday was 23 yrs old. Hate to say it but the US on the mens side appear to be falling even further behind in developing world class players. May be a long stretch of 3 and done WC results...if we even qualify.[/quote']

 

I don’t buy it. There are more and more players getting into line ups inEurope and Mexico. The 22-26 year group was bad, but the talent behind them is prettydarn bright compared to what we have had.

[futbalfan]

In KY the impact was negligible at the varsity level this year. Probably had a bigger impact on JV teams, which lost 8th and 9th graders to the DA. Most of the top upperclassman played H.S. and chose pre DA. Some had committed to a school at the next level and didn't need the DA.

 

IMO the full impact has yet to be felt and becomes slightly larger each of the next couple years. Players are much more likely to give up H.S. soccer if they have never played with their school and made relationships. Take 3-4 of the top players in NKY from each grade, its certainly going to make a difference. Once 12-14 girls are no longer playing high school, it will be difficult for NKY to win a state title (until Lexington or Louisville add a DA).

 

I would say that based on the outcome of the KHSAA championship game a case could easily be made that DA in fact had an impact at the Varsity level considering NDA had 2 upper class players playing DA.

 

As to the impact growing slightly larger the next few years it may although it would still be slightly in terms of overall to the region but like this past season i can see it affecting the NKY teams ability to bring home a state title.

 

There was a similar affect on a few Ohio teams as well with multiple upper class players playing DA. Unlike KY, OH's state brackets are setup to always have 1 team come out of SW OH.

 

Will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years and if FCC finally gets their MLS bid the affect on the boys side as with MLS comes the requirement for a boys academy.