No. I am saying I know conservatives who are for gay marriage and think that those who are against it are "bigoted homophobes who must be punished."

 

That's always been my biggest beef with the pro gay marriage crowd which I'm in. Labeling every person who doesn't support it as a homophobe or bad person. Not every person who disagrees is evil. In all likely hood a majority of them are good people.

That's always been my biggest beef with the pro gay marriage crowd which I'm in. Labeling every person who doesn't support it as a homophobe or bad person. Not every person who disagrees is evil. In all likely hood a majority of them are good people.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. It goes both ways. Every supporter of gay marriage isn't calling those against it homophobes and every supporter of gay marriage isn't only from the left either.

That's always been my biggest beef with the pro gay marriage crowd which I'm in. Labeling every person who doesn't support it as a homophobe or bad person. Not every person who disagrees is evil. In all likely hood a majority of them are good people.

 

I think some of that comes from the use of words like sinful, or starting the slippery slope idea of "what's next", or the implication that committed gay couples don't deserve the same equal treatment that straight married couples get. It's difficult for both sides to avoid crossing the line, especially on an internet forum, where it can be tough to get what you type to read exactly how you mean it.

For those who seem to think that this "official" stance and decision by America does not affect everyone, here is a quote by George Washington. It captures my heart on this issue, and for that matter, other issues before this one. I figured I would use his quote since he has more credibility than I do.

 

 

"....the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered, perhaps, as deeply, as finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." - George Washington, First Inaugural Address, New York City, April 30, 1789

 

Basically, if we throw out God, and we refuse to submit to and honor His order and ways, then we have chosen to come out from under His protection and blessing...and we can no longer expect His divine hand to guide this great country.

 

Rebellion and disobedience to our Almighty creator will absolutely effect us all as a nation.

 

Yes, I believe that the more we have declared our independence from God, the more we have lost our blessing and independence as a nation.

 

William Penn put it this way...

 

"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants." - William Penn

 

We are deceived if we believe that we, as a nation, can continue to throw God's order and ways back in His face, and NOT be effected in ways we may not even realize.

 

BTW, What I have posted here was my conviction prior to yesterdays SCOTUS decision. This decision is only another step down the rebellion road that America has already been on. Perhaps and hopefully someday, our nation takes a U turn, and gets back on it's initial road of submitting to God and His ways, then we might benefit from the propitious smiles of heaven. If not, American, wealth, strength, opportunities and protection will continue to decay.

For those who seem to think that this "official" stance and decision by America does not affect everyone, here is a quote by George Washington. It captures my heart on this issue, and for that matter, other issues before this one. I figured I would use his quote since he has more credibility than I do.

 

 

"....the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered, perhaps, as deeply, as finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." - George Washington, First Inaugural Address, New York City, April 30, 1789

 

Basically, if we throw out God, and we refuse to submit to and honor His order and ways, then we have chosen to come out from under His protection and blessing...and we can no longer expect His divine hand to guide this great country.

 

Rebellion and disobedience to our Almighty creator will absolutely effect us all as a nation.

 

Yes, I believe that the more we have declared our independence from God, the more we have lost our blessing and independence as a nation.

 

William Penn put it this way...

 

"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants." - William Penn

 

We are deceived if we believe that we, as a nation, can continue to throw God's order and ways back in His face, and NOT be effected in ways we may not even realize.

 

BTW, What I have posted here was my conviction prior to yesterdays SCOTUS decision. This decision is only another step down the rebellion road that America has already been on. Perhaps and hopefully someday, our nation takes a U turn, and gets back on it's initial road of submitting to God and His ways, then we might benefit from the propitious smiles of heaven. If not, American, wealth, strength, opportunities and protection will continue to decay.

 

Washington was well known as person of religious tolerance to others however. In his own writings he would recommend that employees of his farm be hired on they're own merit not they're religion or skin color. He was well known for supporting the belief that all kinds of religious practices were beneficial for humans. In essence his belief was that religion is good for man but he did not dictate what religion they should believe in. Its well known that the founding fathers did not wear their faith on they're sleeves. John Adams even signed the Treaty of Tripoli that attested the the US Government was not founded on christian religion. The founding fathers felt religious choices were a private affair unlike today's political environment. Many of our forefathers probably would not even be elected in today's shameful political environment.

 

Your god may not agree with the scotus decision or of individual freedoms that allow for protection under the law, but I may make the argument that my god does.

Your god may not agree with the scotus decision or of individual freedoms that allow for protection under the law, but I may make the argument that my god does.

 

Would you mind doing that? Making your argument? If not here, would you mind PM it to me?

So I'm going to try and state my belief on this topic as clear as I can and why it's always been a non issue to me.

 

I don't use bible quotes like some of protestant Christian peers because I'm Catholic. When I have moral dilemmas I turn to the Catholic Cathecism for guidance. I'm not good Catholic but I try to be.

 

The Catholic Church does not believe being gay to be a sin. The Catholic Church does view sex out of marriage to be a sin. The Catholic Church also believes marriage to be between a man and a woman. So the actual act of intimate relations is considered a sin. But no worse than the dozens of my straight friends who have sex out of marriage.

 

So how could I being a reasonable person cast stones at my gay friends and not also my straight friends. Not to mention a sin I myself have committed.

 

I see no difference in any scenario I listed and I'm not going to judge people based on sins that do not affect me . That isn't my job .

 

I forget the exact quote but I remember a quote from Jesus telling people to follow the laws of Ceaser on earth and of his Father in heaven.

 

As long as a law doesn't force me or you to commit a sin it shouldn't bother us and we should follow the laws of " Ceaser" here on earth. If it is truly a sin that is on the individual when they meet their maker and Lord knows I'll have my fair share to answer for.

 

Being one of the more intelligent posters on BGP your post doesn't surprise me at all.

 

I can only add one thing. I am firmly in the camp that says gay men and women should have the same recognition by the government as I do when it comes to being married.

 

My friend @Randy Parker probably disagrees with that. Here's what I'll say to that and have said before: We'll disagree on that particular issue but I'll lock arms with him at the front doors of his church in protest if anyone ever tries to force his church (or any church) to perform a wedding that they see as going against their religion.

No. I am saying I know conservatives who are for gay marriage and think that those who are against it are "bigoted homophobes who must be punished."

 

Now I am even more confused. You said '"no" but then said exactly what I was asking - as if answering yes. Not a big deal...I agree with you that many conservatives are OK with gay marriage...count me as one. I don't think too many conservatives who are for gay marriage think that those opposed are bigoted homophobes. Some sure, but nowhere near the majority and nowhere near as many as the left that feel that way.

Being one of the more intelligent posters on BGP your post doesn't surprise me at all.

 

 

 

This is better than getting a like. I might frame it.

Could you elaborate on that post? War on the Church?

 

The Christian-as-victim argument is growing stale.

 

The Church teaches, has taught, and always will teach that marriage is a sacred union between one man and one woman. If I even make a comment to suggest that I think the promotion of gay pride is a bit overwhelming, I am absolutely ridiculed and scolded by people who support gay rights. Now that the government has recognized gay marriage, it is not long before they begin to try to force the Catholic Church to do the same.

 

Remember Masterpiece Cake Shop? A Christian business that was forced to provide services for a cause they believed was wrong. People will label the Catholic Church as bigotry, homophobic, etc. for the rest of time. Because people are so "sensitive," eventually being Catholic is going to be against the law. I do not support abortion, I do not support the current healthcare system, and I do not support two people of the same sex getting married. Call me crazy (lots of people do ) but I'd bet in 2060 I will get fined or imprisoned for the last sentence.

 

People have absolutely no tolerance for the Catholic Church, and most of it is unfounded. Do people really think that the Catholic Church, the most charitable organization (in general and to AIDS victims) in the history of mankind, would teach homophobia and rejection? If people did some research and looked at the history of the Church's teachings and looked at the reasons for the teachings, not nearly as many people would hate the Church so much.

 

My last point here, for everyone who does not know: The Catholic Church teaches that we are called to LOVE all people, including LBGT people. And we do.

June 26 will be in the history books (or tablets, really) of the future. Think about it. Gay marriage will be recognized, accepted, and encouraged by the US government until the end of its time. Once you give something out, you cannot take it back.

Your god may not agree with the scotus decision or of individual freedoms that allow for protection under the law, but I may make the argument that my god does.

 

This is profound and ironic as it acknowledges that people make their own gods (little g) that fit there agenda and agrees with their self desires.

 

I only care about Big G and what He says. (not guru :lol2:)

Now I am even more confused. You said '"no" but then said exactly what I was asking - as if answering yes. Not a big deal...I agree with you that many conservatives are OK with gay marriage...count me as one. I don't think too many conservatives who are for gay marriage think that those opposed are bigoted homophobes. Some sure, but nowhere near the majority and nowhere near as many as the left that feel that way.

 

You keep saying it is the left who thinks that people opposed to gay marriage are homophobes. I am saying there are plenty of conservatives who feel the same way you say the left thinks.

You keep saying it is the left who thinks that people opposed to gay marriage are homophobes. I am saying there are plenty of conservatives who feel the same way you say the left thinks.

 

I think his point is he thinks there are many, many more on the Left who will throw out the homophobe title at anyone opposed to gay marriage than from the Right.

Ok, I get that in the religious sense. But does the Church recognize a marriage performed outside of the church?? Say by a JOTP?? What about a marriage performed in a non Christian Church?? And does the legal recognition change anything about what a specific Church believes, or teaches??

 

One thing to keep in mind, is that not everyone is Christian, and nor does this country require everyone to be Christian. And as I've said before, whatever religion you are or choose to follow, is largely based on where you were born and who your parents are (and where they may have been born). In a country that allows freedom of religion, we cannot base all of our laws on the teachings of just one religion (or group or subset of religions). In no way does this mean you cannot have and abide by your beliefs, or make your beliefs right or wrong. All this ruling does is ensure fair treatment on many legal issues for same sex couples.