If you have a lefty hitting 96 mph as a starter, then your 2nd and 3rd pitch doesn't have to be as fined tune as it would be if you are throwing even 90mph. I feel Walt Jockety will ride his hot streak and have Leake go to Louisville as he can always switch the two back if need be. Leake is a serviceable 5th starter but when Cueto returns Arroyo becomes a very good 5th starter.

Dusty makes me lose wood.

 

Noted

If you have a lefty hitting 96 mph as a starter, then your 2nd and 3rd pitch doesn't have to be as fined tune as it would be if you are throwing even 90mph. I feel Walt Jockety will ride his hot streak and have Leake go to Louisville as he can always switch the two back if need be. Leake is a serviceable 5th starter but when Cueto returns Arroyo becomes a very good 5th starter.

I understand your point, but in the show, if you don't have a wrinkle, these guys are gonna send one back thru the box with a set of nuts on it. He's got to develop a hammer IMO. Imagine with a solid sweeper how effective he could be on lefties. Like Aroldis essentially.

^I understand your point but through three games he has dominated. "The best pitch in baseball is a well placed fastball." Price is a great pitching coach and they can work on the off speed stuff inbetween striking out 11 batters in 6 inning's. He was the Red's minor league pitcher of the year so he has done enough there. I like Leake alot but he has to have pinpoint control or he is toast. When you throw 95-96 you can be off a little and still be effective.

^I understand your point but through three games he has dominated. "The best pitch in baseball is a well placed fastball." Price is a great pitching coach and they can work on the off speed stuff inbetween striking out 11 batters in 6 inning's. He was the Red's minor league pitcher of the year so he has done enough there. I like Leake alot but he has to have pinpoint control or he is toast. When you throw 95-96 you can be off a little and still be effective.

Like I said, effectively wild. That will only take him so far. I agree that Leake should be the one out the door when a healthy Cueto returns. The problem with Cingrani is he doesn't have "well placed" fastballs. His are all over the map, thankfully, more all over yet in the zone than out. I agree about Price.

Cingrani's next start will be next Saturday against the Cubs, a team he's already faced. It will be interesting to see how he fares against a team the 2nd time around.

Why does everyone hate on Leake? The dude is a quality pitcher. Cingrani has potential but still a lot of unknown. Next year if Cingrani can get a 3rd pitch and control his fastball then he can take Leakes spot. He aint ready yet to pitch a full season in the majors and needs to spend this season, after Cueto gets back, in AAA to develop into a stud.

I'm sick and tired of hearing and reading all this develop his stuff crap. The main objective is to win, and win now. And right now Cingrani gives you a better chance than Leake. Perhaps they do figure him out the 2nd time around. If they do then deal with that problem if it happens. You gotta keep Cingrani in the rotation over Leake.

I'm sick and tired of hearing and reading all this develop his stuff crap. The main objective is to win' date=' and win now. And right now Cingrani gives you a better chance than Leake. Perhaps they do figure him out the 2nd time around. If they do then deal with that problem if it happens. You gotta keep Cingrani in the rotation over Leake.[/quote']

 

Right. You know what you're going to get from Leake and can always bring him back up. It's a good situation to be in.

Leake is one of the best #6 starters in the National League.

I'm sick and tired of hearing and reading all this develop his stuff crap. The main objective is to win, and win now. And right now Cingrani gives you a better chance than Leake. Perhaps they do figure him out the 2nd time around. If they do then deal with that problem if it happens. You gotta keep Cingrani in the rotation over Leake.

 

Well, to take that notion, why not just go to a four man rotation? Who cares about how their arms are next year? They've got the entire off season to rest. Pull both Arroyo and Leake, and put Cingrani in with Cueto, Latos and Bailey. I mean, that's 8 more starts for your numbers 1-4...who wouldn't want that? I mean, it gives you your best chance to win now, doesn't it?

 

Okay, so I boiled it down maybe a little further than you anticipated (and will probably get raked over the coals for it)...but, you're looking at a kid who had all of 5 innings of major league experience coming into this year. And prior to that, it was AA ball or lower...so, yes, you can get by (and even flourish) with just having a good heater (especially from the left side).

 

I'm not saying he might not be able to do it at this level (get people out with just one pitch). But, I think the odds would be against him.

^I understand your point but through three games he has dominated. "The best pitch in baseball is a well placed fastball." Price is a great pitching coach and they can work on the off speed stuff inbetween striking out 11 batters in 6 inning's. He was the Red's minor league pitcher of the year so he has done enough there. I like Leake alot but he has to have pinpoint control or he is toast. When you throw 95-96 you can be off a little and still be effective.

 

 

Sure, he touched 96 mph on his fastball but his average fastball over his two starts was 92 mph. That's fast, especially for a lefty--but it isn't going to consistantly blow big league hitter away. For comparison, Mike Leake's average fastball speed this year has been 90.6 mph. The scouting report on Cingrani says that he has a deceptive delivery--that's fine, until hitters see you a few times and you only have one really good pitch.

Edited April 29, 201313 yr by AverageJoesGym

If this kid could get a go to slider he would be hard to handle. Let's get that down then bring him up fulltime. Don't run him up and down over and over like Bailey, nearly killed all of that kids confidence the way he got jerked around early in his career.

I'm sick and tired of hearing and reading all this develop his stuff crap. The main objective is to win, and win now. And right now Cingrani gives you a better chance than Leake. Perhaps they do figure him out the 2nd time around. If they do then deal with that problem if it happens. You gotta keep Cingrani in the rotation over Leake.

 

I posted this in the game thread but it is very relevant here as well:

 

I'm not sure that is best for him. He's thrown his fastball about 78% of the time in his two starts. He's got a very good fastball, especially for a lefty but it has averaged around 92 mph. He's not going to get by throwing that high of a percentage of fastballs as teams get a second look at him. Here's a list of starting pitchers over the last 10 years that have thrown that high a percentage of fastballs: Justin Masterson, Aaron Cook, Derrick Lowe, Jaret Wright and Daniel Cabrera. He's going to have to improve his other pitches to have long-term success--I'm not sure that he's best served doing that against Major League hitters.

 

Well, to take that notion, why not just go to a four man rotation? Who cares about how their arms are next year? They've got the entire off season to rest. Pull both Arroyo and Leake, and put Cingrani in with Cueto, Latos and Bailey. I mean, that's 8 more starts for your numbers 1-4...who wouldn't want that? I mean, it gives you your best chance to win now, doesn't it?

 

Okay, so I boiled it down maybe a little further than you anticipated (and will probably get raked over the coals for it)...but, you're looking at a kid who had all of 5 innings of major league experience coming into this year. And prior to that, it was AA ball or lower...so, yes, you can get by (and even flourish) with just having a good heater (especially from the left side).

 

I'm not saying he might not be able to do it at this level (get people out with just one pitch). But, I think the odds would be against him.

 

Who says a 4 man rotation makes them better? How many times have any of them pitched on 3 days rest? What are their numbers on 3 days rest?