I said property owners, not homeowners. The fact of the matter is that there is a growing percentage of people that are not paying income taxes. The percentage in the country is over 40% and rushing towards 50%. Those that don't pay always vote for a free handout, why wouldn't they? The problem for them becomes a time close to now when the payors say that's it we're done carrying the load for you-you are on your own. Because of generations of this learned behavior, they will not know any other way or what to do. An example is a Lion. Thre are Lions in the wild and Lions at the zoo. Nobody can argue that the beast is a Lion, but what is different are their survival skills. The Lion in the jungle figures out a way to make it or perishes. The Lion at the zoo waits for the zookeeper to come by every day and bring him his food.

 

A fair tax is a plausible idea. I am not trying to be hard hearted here, but for crying out loud America has lost her way, and the great sucking sound you hear is the taxation out the wazoo. No pay=no vote to my way of thinking. If you don't have a stake in the game, it is easy to spend other peoples money. Look at the government.

 

Tune into Dave Ramsey (a financial guru) and he can help you in about twelve weeks figure things out, but you have to want to change behavior, not just say you are going to do it. Members of Congress should tune in to get us out of this sinkhole of debt.

 

As Rock Mom pointed out, there are a lot of taxes paid by a lot of people outside of income taxes. The suggestions is that this 47% doesn't pay taxes, but they do pay and pay quite a bit. They just don't pay income taxes.

 

Should we want Grandma, whose income is her social security check to pay taxes on that income??

 

I don't think so.

 

There is no overburden of taxes. That is a rallying cry. Our recession was not result of taxes, heck the top margins were cut just before the recession.

 

As to the second bolded, do you realize what a small percentage of people are DEPENDENT on the aid?

Certainly they don't pay property taxes though............

 

i thought I paid property tax on my car, hmmmmmm

Correct. However, they pay it it in the form of rent which becomes income for the owner which becomes tax.

 

Well using that argument then everyone does pay taxes??:walk:

As Rock Mom pointed out, there are a lot of taxes paid by a lot of people outside of income taxes. The suggestions is that this 47% doesn't pay taxes, but they do pay and pay quite a bit. They just don't pay income taxes.

 

Should we want Grandma, whose income is her social security check to pay taxes on that income??

I don't think so.

 

There is no overburden of taxes. That is a rallying cry. Our recession was not result of taxes, heck the top margins were cut just before the recession.

 

As to the second bolded, do you realize what a small percentage of people are DEPENDENT on the aid?

 

If you check the facts on social security it was started when folks had a life expectancy of 64 years of age, and when was social security supposed to start?-at age 65. As usual, the government has good ideas, but there is simply no way of taking something back once it is given. That is the history of our country. The same will be true in the future with health care.

 

The bottom line is you cannot argue that it is possible to spend $1.50 for every $1.00 you bring in, because it is unsustainable. So yes, I would change the social security system if I were in charge. Again, I believe in personal responsibility. To have a program like that in place demonstrates a complete lack of ability for individuals to learn to save and invest. I am being a bit radical, but in the founding of this country if Grandma didn't have money, then her FAMILY or CHURCH would step in, now we all expect the government check every month. (I wonder where they get all that money??)

Well using that argument then everyone does pay taxes??:walk:

 

Correct. Can we agree that the rent would be lower if the landlord didn't have to pay property taxes? If so, then the renter is paying the tax?

 

Just like if we windfall tax oil its going to come out of our pockets.

 

So, yes, renters pay tax and they do not get tax breaks like we homeowners do.

No, I labled their rhetoric as inciteful. But, as usual, you want to presume something not intended.

No you're labeling the entire group that way, you didn't specify rhetoric nor did you specify some. It was a blanket statement plain and simple.

No you're labeling the entire group that way, you didn't specify rhetoric nor did you specify some. It was a blanket statement plain and simple.

 

Well, it is kind of hard to be insightful or inciteful without opening your mouth, so in that light I don't see how you could have either of those without the rhetoric.

If you check the facts on social security it was started when folks had a life expectancy of 64 years of age, and when was social security supposed to start?-at age 65. As usual, the government has good ideas, but there is simply no way of taking something back once it is given. That is the history of our country. The same will be true in the future with health care.

 

The bottom line is you cannot argue that it is possible to spend $1.50 for every $1.00 you bring in, because it is unsustainable. So yes, I would change the social security system if I were in charge. Again, I believe in personal responsibility. To have a program like that in place demonstrates a complete lack of ability for individuals to learn to save and invest. I am being a bit radical, but in the founding of this country if Grandma didn't have money, then her FAMILY or CHURCH would step in, now we all expect the government check every month. (I wonder where they get all that money??)

 

What is the current retirement age for Social Security?

Well, it is kind of hard to be insightful or inciteful without opening your mouth, so in that light I don't see how you could have either of those without the rhetoric.

You sound like a politician, Jim. :lol:

What is the current retirement age for Social Security?

 

Depends on the year you were born. For most on here it's probably 66 to 67.

The Tea Party has been around for years. They just changed the name from the KKK.

 

 

What about Obama's terrorist groupies? Bill Ayers is a full fledged terrorist. He and his buddies bombed government facilities and killed one person. Does that make Obama a terrorist lover? Afterall he and Ayers are close buddies.

I'll bet no one in the Tea Party is friends with a real-life terrorist bombing killer.

What about Obama's terrorist groupies? Bill Ayers is a full fledged terrorist. He and his buddies bombed government facilities and killed one person. Does that make Obama a terrorist lover? Afterall he and Ayers are close buddies.

I'll bet no one in the Tea Party is friends with a real-life terrorist bombing killer.

 

Old scaredy-cat stuff that is not true (about his association). The American people did not believe this scare tactic in the campaign and will not be fooled now.

 

Bill Ayes did that in 1972 . . . What has he been doing since. I know, I know, indoctrinating others so that they will do it again later.

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I actually agree with most of what you said here.

 

With the exception of what is in Bold. I think we are at our weakest moment in a long time, but hopefully we will spin out of it, and get back to the fundamentals of what made our country great. So if that is what you meant, then I agree.

 

I believe we need to only allow property owners the opportunity to vote. Now I know we are way past the time when this is plausible, but think about it, the have nots are always going to vote for the haves to give them more and more, and that is where we are now. Personal responsibility is desparately needed. I could care a less if it is a Republican or Democrat in the White House, but if folks think the government should take care of them, then that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

I disagree. I believe the right to vote should remain the same, except that if you choose to depend on a government relief program, you should lose the right to vote. Property ownership is not the same as being self supporting. However, I do believe that people on the doll spending someone else's money have no right to decide our leadership.

Depends on the year you were born. For most on here it's probably 66 to 67.

 

That's what I thought. History stated above "social security supposed to start?-at age 65. As usual, the government has good ideas, but there is simply no way of taking something back once it is given"

 

So I guess there is a way the government can "take something back".

I disagree. I believe the right to vote should remain the same, except that if you choose to depend on a government relief program, you should lose the right to vote. Property ownership is not the same as being self supporting. However, I do believe that people on the doll spending someone else's money have no right to decide our leadership.

 

So if I lose my job and go on umemployment, then I lose my right to vote, brilliant.

 

people CONTRIBUTE in many ways to this great country not all of which is economical.