So Rolen had better minor league numbers and reached the majors at an earlier age than Michael Jack Schmidt.

Schmidt also hit .196 in his first year in the major leagues.

 

Some guys develop. Some don't. Schmidt obviously did.

 

Of course, you didn't tell us that his Double-A numbers were in half of a season and came right after he was drafted. You also didn't say that his Triple-A numbers were in a full season.

 

Like I said, raw numbers don't always tell us the whole story. And you're comparing guys from completely different eras of baseball, some 25 years apart.

Some guys develop. Some don't. Schmidt obviously did.

 

 

 

The exact reason it's way too early to predict anything on Rasmus or Stubbs.

So Rolen had better minor league numbers and reached the majors at an earlier age than Michael Jack Schmidt.

 

You can always go back and find players that outperform their minor league numbers in the majors. The original point was that westsider said that you'd be hard pressed to find a GM that would take Stubbs over Rasmus. You said check back in 2 years and that westsider's opinion was just speculation. I'd have to agree with westsider on his original point. I think almost any GM at the current time would rather have Rasmus than Stubbs.

 

Here's a scouting report on Stubbs from this offseason:

 

"Stubbs is the guy the Reds hope can develop into a legitimate lead off hitter to set the table for Brandon Phillips, Votto and Bruce. While Stubbs is not a guy who projects to be a .300 type hitter, he has worked on his plate discipline to the point that he could draw enough walks to keep his OBP high enough to warrant the top of the order spot. Stubbs also has some pretty good gap-to-gap pop that can develop into home run power, especially in the home run friendly Great American Ballpark."

 

The same people talking about Rasmus:

 

" Colby Rasmus projects all plus tools and is the superior, impact-type prospect the St. Louis Cardinals organization has been waiting for ever since Albert Pujols was plucked from it. Some people are worried that Rasmus won’t be the same man since his injury last season, but there’s no proof of that. Rasmus is a perfect example of a five-tool player as he can run, throw, field, hit, and hit for power. He has very quick hands which gives him excellent plate coverage. Projects to have plus power and should be able to put up a fantastic stat line. Excellent bat speed, good pitch recognition, and plus runner. Not sure how much St. Louis will allow him to run once he reaches Majors but could have 20+ stolen bases per year. He’s doing an excellent job on his move to center field which is where the Cardinals desperately need someone ever since Jim Edmonds’ departure."

 

I like Stubbs but I don't think there is a question who is the better prospect at this point.

The exact reason it's way too early to predict anything on Rasmus or Stubbs.

I'm not predicting stardom or bust status for either one of them ... I am simply evaluating them through the evidence we have available to us. We have much more evidence than you were willing to share about your "mystery player."

 

By the way, I knew it was Schmidt because I did a search for his numbers. As I said, you only shared bits and pieces of information that fit the point you were trying to make.

 

Back to Rasmus and Stubbs ... the evidence we have at the moment favors Rasmus, by a definite margin.

Every off season I forget how awesome it is to have Abner Doubleday gracing us with his presence in the Reds threads...

Flattery gets you nowhere here ... :lol:

He had hernia surgery last year? Regardless, he played in 147 games & had 474 at-bats.

 

From the stltoday.com article:http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/7DBE20B59037B860862576E6000C8A44?OpenDocument

 

"JUPITER, FLA. — He is 15 pounds heavier and noticeably more fit...Personal and professional issues tugged at Rasmus for his entire 2009 rookie season. He dealt with a hiatal hernia that sapped him of 25 pounds and much of his energy. He confronted difficult adjustments at the plate that left him with a .251 average, 16 home runs and little gratification against lefthanded pitching. His longtime girlfriend's unplanned pregnancy strained relationships within his family, particularly with his father, Tony...."Toward the middle and the last part of the season I lost so much strength. I was tired every day. I wasn't able to put the time in, and it definitely showed. I was beat down. I wasn't eating. My body was struggling," Colby said.

 

I wasn't saying it's because he missed time his numbers were down. I was saying he was playing hurt and weak...I would say that affected him at the plate, don't you think too? Losing 25 pounds probably doesn't help your cause.

You may very well be right, but also don't look at the minor league numbers and base anything off of it.

 

I didn't base anything off his minor league numbers? I never followed him and looked him up when he was in the minors, I took the scouts word for it. I based my opinion off of scouting reports and when I have seen him play. He is going to be a stud and you can tell that just by watching him play.

I didn't base anything off his minor league numbers? I never followed him and looked him up when he was in the minors, I took the scouts word for it. I based my opinion off of scouting reports and when I have seen him play. He is going to be a stud and you can tell that just by watching him play.

 

 

A lot of the same things were said about Austin Kearns. Baseball is a funny game sometimes.

A lot of the same things were said about Austin Kearns. Baseball is a funny game sometimes.

 

Very true. Who knows whether Rasmus will be the next Austin Kearns or the next Carlos Beltran. Personally, based off everything I have read, seen, and heard, Rasmus will be a big time ball player. Now I don't feel like I'm going out on a limb either, the guy has all the tools, but if he turns out to be Austin Kearns then I guess you would be right.

 

Bottom line is I think someone would be crazy to take Stubbs over Rasmus at this point.

Reds pitching was 7th in ERA last year in the NL. Hardly average or below average.

 

Gomes/Nix combined for 35 HRs and 90+ rbi's last year. How many LFers put up better numbers?

 

SS - not sure about the defensive prowess of the new SS but offensively his numbers are above average for a SS.

 

My guess is Rolen will be above average overall. Defensively, he's easily in the discussion for top overall.

 

The NL ERA in 2009 was 4.16, the Reds ERA in 2009 was 4.18. I'd call that exactly average.

 

As far as Gomes/Nix numbers are concerned, that would be all well and good except for the math that you are using to come up with those left field numbers. Those two did not only play left field last season. Sure they produced those numbers--but in 214 games played. It is not realistic to expect 35 HRs and 90+ RBIs. In fact, the Reds leftfield platoon actually put up these numbers last season:

 

.240 AVG .302 OB% .418 Slg 24 HRs 71 RBIs 2 SB and 164 Strikeouts....Those are very poor numbers from a corner outfield position. Remember, Dusty also likes to trot Dickerson out there.

 

As far as Cabrera is concerned, in 2009 he had these stats:

160 games .284 Avg .316 OBP .389 Slg 83 Runs 9 HR 77 RBI 13 SB

 

The average NL Shortstop position put up these numbers:

162 games .268 Avg .327 OBP .396 Slg 86 Runs 12 HR 70 RBI 14 SB

Again, Cabrera looks decidedly average.

 

As for Rolen, IF he manages to play 140+ games for the first time since 2006 he could have a nice year in that ballpark.

A lot of the same things were said about Austin Kearns. Baseball is a funny game sometimes.

 

That is true but back to the original point--as of right now not many GMs would trade Rasmus for Stubbs straight up. All we have to go by is their limited body of work and scouting reports. And as far as that goes Rasmus is the better player right now.

The debate was mostly with the bullpen not overall pitching.

The debate was mostly with the bullpen not overall pitching.

 

However, that wasn't what Clyde was talking about...

The NL ERA in 2009 was 4.16, the Reds ERA in 2009 was 4.18. I'd call that exactly average.

Given the ballpark the Reds play in, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and call it a little above average last year. There is little doubt that pitching was the team's strength last year.

 

The rest of your comments are on the money.

By the bullpen. :sssh:

 

Actually I'd give Mr. Arroyo credit for the win yesterday. 8 innings of 1 run ball and drives in 1 of the 2 runs they scored. To your point the pen had one inning and they did their job. No more, no less. They won, that's what really matters. :thumb: