Who did Florida miss more this season? Harvin or Murphy?

[Original Rookie]

Percy Harvin or Louis Murphy?

 

We started taking over the Florida/UC thread and that isn't fair to UC.

 

Thoughts?

[BigSpikes]

It depends, they were without a deep play threat this season, which really limited what they were able to do this season. Murphy did that for them, while Percy was arguably one of the most explosive players of this decade, Murphy came up with countless huge plays down the field for UF. See the catch in the third quarter by #9 on the drive that put Florida up by 4 in the SEC title last year, or the first touchdown he caught in the MNC against Oklahoma.

 

It's hard really, but I go with Murphy. With him on the field, there were less defenders in the box, which meant more lanes for Tebow/Demps/Rainey/James to run through. Without him, teams were able to load up the box and force UF to pass, like what Tennessee, Mississippi State, and Alabama did.

[CatsCatsCats]

As a player it's easy, Percy Harvin.

 

As for the grand scheme it's about even IMO. Murphy changes the way that teams attack UF on a broader scale, but Harvin requires more attention. Teams had to prepare for Harvin, but teams had to fit that plan in with the adjustments that Murphy requires.

 

Easiest way is that Murphy took defenders out of the box because he stretched the field. Harvin very rarely ran the same types of routes as Murphy because he was so involved in the run game.

 

Lack of a deep threat, (no Cooper you are not one IMO) allowed for an extra defender to be almost exclusively committed to the run game and really made the offense less explosive against great defenses IMO. Demps and Rainey didn't have as much room this season against quality teams, and I feel that had alot to do with how teams attacked UF.

 

Player-wise Harvin is probably one of the best the last few years though obviously. But, Murphy allowed for UF to use Meyer's offensive philosophy (out-number teams in the box and run the ball), as they had to cover the entire field. JMO.

 

So I vote they missed them both equally.

[Original Rookie]

I think one of the biggest problems with the Murphy argument is that Tebow is Florida's Quarterback. TT is a lot of things, but a being a great down the field passer is not one of them. I can not imagine opposing teams breaking down the Florida offense and saying that they need to stop the deep ball first and the run second.

[CatsCatsCats]

^^They didn't say that. But, they had to account for the deep ball. Changes how they attacked the UF offense. Murphy wasn't the guy anyone was worried about, but he did alter their game plans. It wasn't the first priority, but teams couldn't forget about it either. He made defense account for the entire field making Harvin, Tebow, Demps, Hernandez, etc. more difficult to cover.

[Original Rookie]

^^They didn't say that. But, they had to account for the deep ball. Changes how they attacked the UF offense. Murphy wasn't the guy anyone was worried about, but he did alter their game plans.

 

Right, but THE game plan was built around stopping Harvin and Tebow from running. Murphy kept them somewhat honest, but Murphy benefited more from having Harvin than the other way around.

 

If you could carry over one person from last year to the year, Harvin is the choice. For no other reason than he fits what Florida does well much more than Murphy.

[Original Rookie]

I feel like this wouldn't even be a conversation if Murphy didn't have a huge game yesterday :lol:

[CatsCatsCats]

Right, but THE game plan was built around stopping Harvin and Tebow from running. Murphy kept them somewhat honest, but Murphy benefited more from having Harvin than the other way around.

 

If you could carry over one person from last year to the year, Harvin is the choice. For no other reason than he fits what Florida does well much more than Murphy.

 

What you are forgetting is that what allows for the game plan to work is a threat outside and IMO you can't forget that. An extra man in the box hurt UF this season.

 

Like I said you cannot compare the players, but for Urban's offense to be nearly unstoppable you have to have someone to stretch the field along with speedsters in the backfield. But, continue to ignore the strategical part of the equation if you want.:isurrender: Does UF beat Bama on saturday with only one of the two being on the team? I don't think so. But, with both they would have a great shot IMO. It's the whole, and a huge part of UF's offense was that you had to play them honest last season, and a huge part of that was Murphy in the passing game.

 

Yesterday had nothing to do with it. I can't stand Murphy, I think he is an arrogant player especially when he was in college. But, he's often forgotten by people, and played a huge part in the Gators success.

[Original Rookie]

What you are forgetting is that what allows for the game plan to work is a threat outside and IMO you can't forget that. An extra man in the box hurt UF this season.

 

Like I said you cannot compare the players, but for Urban's offense to be nearly unstoppable you have to have someone to stretch the field along with speedsters in the backfield. But, continue to ignore the strategical part of the equation if you want.:isurrender: Does UF beat Bama on saturday with only one of the two being on the team? I don't think so. But, with both they would have a great shot IMO. It's the whole, and a huge part of UF's offense was that you had to play them honest last season, and a huge part of that was Murphy in the passing game.

 

Yesterday had nothing to do with it. I can't stand Murphy, I think he is an arrogant player especially when he was in college. But, he's often forgotten by people, and played a huge part in the Gators success.

Which strategical part have I ignored? I have said that Murphy benefited more from what Harvin did than the other way around. Where have you proven me wrong in that regard?

 

Harvin scored 17 TD's to Murphy's 7 and played two less games. I know numbers aren't the whole story, but in this case they are too hard to ignore.

 

I agree that the Murphy loss hurts more than most would think, but not close to losing a Percy Harvin. There is no evidence anywhere to suggest otherwise.

[CatsCatsCats]

Which strategical part have I ignored? I have said that Murphy benefited more from what Harvin did than the other way around. Where have you proven me wrong in that regard?

 

Harvin scored 17 TD's to Murphy's 7 and played two less games. I know numbers aren't the whole story, but in this case they are too hard to ignore.

 

I agree that the Murphy loss hurts more than most would think, but not close to losing a Percy Harvin. There is no evidence anywhere to suggest otherwise.

 

Look man, I've made it as clear as I can. I read alot about Meyer and his offense/coaching philosophy, I tape every game they play, and really study the stuff because I love that offense. The way teams attack them now is nothing like what they could do last year.

 

All I can tell you is that Meyer wants someone who can stretch the field in the passing game because it makes it easier to run the ball. UF only ran 14 times against Bama, and couldn't do it. Not because of personnel, but because of the way Alabama and Saban were able to play them. As a player Harvin hurts more, but in the grand scheme of things the lack of a legit deep threat (please don't say Riley Cooper again) hurts Meyer's offense and game plan. Alabama was able to force them into passing situations and it's pretty easy to stop Tebow in that regard if you have the personnel. I can't explain it anymore.

 

I know what you're saying, but you are totally and completely missing what I'm tryin to say. I get it. Harvin is great and would make any offense infinitely better. But, at some point with evenly matched teams, strategy is going to come into play. That is where Murphy's worth cannot be measured in stats. The extra 2-3 yards per play come as a result, IMO, of how defenses had to play them. UF had great rushing statistics for the season, but many of them came against teams that were overmatched and couldn't cover UF's WR this season. Quality teams don't have to worry about Riley Cooper beating them.

[CatsCatsCats]

^I also don't see how Murphy benefitted from Harvin. Murphy got many teams best DB for much of the games, as Harvin would be lined up anywhere. It's not like he put up video game stats, he was there to make a few plays and keep the defense honest.

[BigSpikes]

I feel like this wouldn't even be a conversation if Murphy didn't have a huge game yesterday :lol:

 

I've always felt that way about Murphy, even when a lot of my friends that also like UF gave me a hard time for liking him. In his own way, he was just as big a home-run threat as Harvin last year.

[Original Rookie]

Look man, I've made it as clear as I can. I read alot about Meyer and his offense/coaching philosophy, I tape every game they play, and really study the stuff because I love that offense. The way teams attack them now is nothing like what they could do last year.

 

All I can tell you is that Meyer wants someone who can stretch the field in the passing game because it makes it easier to run the ball. UF only ran 14 times against Bama, and couldn't do it. Not because of personnel, but because of the way Alabama and Saban were able to play them. As a player Harvin hurts more, but in the grand scheme of things the lack of a legit deep threat (please don't say Riley Cooper again) hurts Meyer's offense and game plan. Alabama was able to force them into passing situations and it's pretty easy to stop Tebow in that regard if you have the personnel. I can't explain it anymore.

 

I know what you're saying, but you are totally and completely missing what I'm tryin to say. I get it. Harvin is great and would make any offense infinitely better. But, at some point with evenly matched teams, strategy is going to come into play. That is where Murphy's worth cannot be measured in stats. The extra 2-3 yards per play come as a result, IMO, of how defenses had to play them. UF had great rushing statistics for the season, but many of them came against teams that were overmatched and couldn't cover UF's WR this season. Quality teams don't have to worry about Riley Cooper beating them.

You think it is laughable to compare Cooper to Murphy as a deep threat, but Riley averaged more per catch than Murphy did. That right there tells you it is at least comparable.

 

You study every play, but can't see how having Harvin benefited Murphy? :idunno: Let's go back to that thing where the Safety has to play the run and pass. Murphy saw a lot of single coverage on the outside because of how Harvin and Tebow run the ball.

 

Having Murphy led to 2-3 extra yards per carry? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Murphy never once had over 100 yards receiving or scored twice in a game.

 

So far all we have for your side of the argument is that you watch every game, break down all the tape, are an Urban Meyer disciple, etc. Sorry if I need more to be convinced :idunno:

[CatsCatsCats]

You think it is laughable to compare Cooper to Murphy as a deep threat, but Riley averaged more per catch than Murphy did. That right there tells you it is at least comparable.

 

You study every play, but can't see how having Harvin benefited Murphy? :idunno: Let's go back to that thing where the Safety has to play the run and pass. Murphy saw a lot of single coverage on the outside because of how Harvin and Tebow run the ball.

 

Having Murphy led to 2-3 extra yards per carry? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Murphy never once had over 100 yards receiving or scored twice in a game.

 

So far all we have for your side of the argument is that you watch every game, break down all the tape, are an Urban Meyer disciple, etc. Sorry if I need more to be convinced :idunno:

 

I'm through arguing with you. You don't get it and never will. That's fine with me. What you said about single coverage for Murphy is sort of going with what I said. It's about being a complete offensive football team. Not just having two players. Murphy gives them another area of the field that Harvin or no one else they have does. You didn't see Harvin running too many 12 yard square-ins or deep post did you? It's the little things that Murphy did.

 

That's fine though don't take my word for it. Don't take Urban's word for it. I think he'd talk circles around the both of us football wise so I'm going to stick with what he says. But, do your own thing. I'm sure Urban Meyer doesn't know what he's talking about.:idunno:

[Original Rookie]

I'm through arguing with you. You don't get it and never will. That's fine with me. What you said about single coverage for Murphy is sort of going with what I said. It's about being a complete offensive football team. Not just having two players. Murphy gives them another area of the field that Harvin or no one else they have does. You didn't see Harvin running too many 12 yard square-ins or deep post did you? It's the little things that Murphy did.

 

That's fine though don't take my word for it. Don't take Urban's word for it. I think he'd talk circles around the both of us football wise so I'm going to stick with what he says. But, do your own thing. I'm sure Urban Meyer doesn't know what he's talking about.:idunno:

 

No doubt both were important, but there's also no doubt which one was more important.

 

Urban Meyer said they lost more with Murphy compared to Harvin. I'm waiting on a link?