This debate is ongoing, so it deserves its own thread. Remember to keep it within the rules.

Louisville.

Definitely Louisville this weekend.

How is this different than the King of the Bluegrass thread?

How is this different than the King of the Bluegrass thread?

 

Dangit...:irked: It's not...Didn't see that one.

It really all depends on how you look at it.

 

Trinity and St.X are heads and shoulders above anyone and everyone in Louisville more often than not. Quite often they are like that across the state. Louisville has some other, solid, squads but they often run afoul of Trinity and St.X as most of the best teams in Louisville are all in 6A. Central is really the only other squad in Louisville with consistent talent to make any noise at any other level. CAL, Holy Cross, DeSales and Western can all be good every so often but they are not consistent and certainly not close to their counterparts in their respective classes.

 

NKY has been traditionally weak at the top in 6A/4A(prior to the reclassification). Boone County was once a powerhouse but never managed to capture a title. All other NKY big schools have really paled in comparison to what Boone County used to be and none have really had the kind of success that the Rebels did either. NKY's biggest strength has been the other classes. For years they had dominant teams in Beechwood, NCC, CovCath and Highlands with the Bluebirds and Tigers being the most successful. And for the most part all three of those teams have stayed dominant and successful. One could argue that Highlands is and has been on par with the big Catholics down in Louisville and that is a legitimate claim with their 17 state titles and constant dominance in what was 3A and now is 5A they are no slouch. Also something to note is that Bob Beatty's first game as Trinity's head coach was actually a defeat at the hands of the Bluebirds in 2000.

 

One of the interesting things to look at in this demographic though is that we are talking about dramatically different situations when comparing NKY and Louisville; especially at the public level. NKY is a number of different counties spread across an area similar in size to Jefferson County(which coincidentally is the city limits of Louisville) and they have a number of different school systems with little to no intermixing as far as attendance is concerned. Which leads to, if there is a superlative class in one area, a program achieving a high level of success for a while then dropping off. Which could happen in Louisville, but often these talents would end up dispersed to many schools where their impact would not be as dramatic therefore diluting the pool because of sheer size. This is of course not taking into account the Independent school systems and the private schools. Interestingly enough the only programs with considerable success in this area.

 

Louisville on the other hand, being 1 continuous school system with open enrollment leads to some interesting developments and shifts in football prowess at some schools, since anyone can pretty much attend any school. For a time just about anyone who looked like a good football player could get into Male with little trouble. Recently the JCPS has come down on practices like that and now only students who have come through the Traditional program are admitted. Male has traditionally been the power in Louisville for the JCPS and due to these enrollment restrictions you find less talent there than even 2 years ago. The teams that are really starting to pick up are Manual, who has considerable potential, and obviously Central. Ballard has a new coach who looks to really bring the Bruins up to their potential as well. The prospects are quite good for a number of programs in the Louisville area over the next few years.

 

However since we are talking about top to bottom I still find it quite difficult to give you a legitimate and non-homerish response. Not so much because I am incapable of detaching myself from my school loyalty but more so because we are much more top heavy in Louisville. If you take the top two squads from both areas it is essentially a wash. Trinity and Highlands are almost equal in state titles and success throughout the years. That leaves St.X then with a considerable drop to the next tier of Manual, Central and Ballard, then another considerable drop to Male and Eastern. If we compare them simply school to school that would be interesting but if we are going by total success then it would be hard to pick Louisville over NKY. While Trinity and St.X have a combined 29 state titles in football, and I don't think you can find any other town with two schools who can claim that kind of dominance, we drop to about 5 for Male after that and I am not entirely sure how many Manual has. Although they DO have a national title to their credit from around 50 years ago.

 

If I had to pick I would probably say NKY but only because of success in more than 2 classes. I think if you took the top 2 or 3 squads in both areas and played them against each other regularly that Louisville would probably win more often than not, but it is hypothetical and we cannot prove anything one way or another there. Quality of teams historically is another conundrum I touched on here that would take another LONG post that I don't feel like writing at the moment after all this.

It really all depends on how you look at it.

 

Trinity and St.X are heads and shoulders above anyone and everyone in Louisville more often than not. Quite often they are like that across the state. Louisville has some other, solid, squads but they often run afoul of Trinity and St.X as most of the best teams in Louisville are all in 6A. Central is really the only other squad in Louisville with consistent talent to make any noise at any other level. CAL, Holy Cross, DeSales and Western can all be good every so often but they are not consistent and certainly not close to their counterparts in their respective classes.

 

NKY has been traditionally weak at the top in 6A/4A(prior to the reclassification). Boone County was once a powerhouse but never managed to capture a title. All other NKY big schools have really paled in comparison to what Boone County used to be and none have really had the kind of success that the Rebels did either. NKY's biggest strength has been the other classes. For years they had dominant teams in Beechwood, NCC, CovCath and Highlands with the Bluebirds and Tigers being the most successful. And for the most part all three of those teams have stayed dominant and successful. One could argue that Highlands is and has been on par with the big Catholics down in Louisville and that is a legitimate claim with their 17 state titles and constant dominance in what was 3A and now is 5A they are no slouch. Also something to note is that Bob Beatty's first game as Trinity's head coach was actually a defeat at the hands of the Bluebirds in 2000.

 

One of the interesting things to look at in this demographic though is that we are talking about dramatically different situations when comparing NKY and Louisville; especially at the public level. NKY is a number of different counties spread across an area similar in size to Jefferson County(which coincidentally is the city limits of Louisville) and they have a number of different school systems with little to no intermixing as far as attendance is concerned. Which leads to, if there is a superlative class in one area, a program achieving a high level of success for a while then dropping off. Which could happen in Louisville, but often these talents would end up dispersed to many schools where their impact would not be as dramatic therefore diluting the pool because of sheer size. This is of course not taking into account the Independent school systems and the private schools. Interestingly enough the only programs with considerable success in this area.

 

Louisville on the other hand, being 1 continuous school system with open enrollment leads to some interesting developments and shifts in football prowess at some schools, since anyone can pretty much attend any school. For a time just about anyone who looked like a good football player could get into Male with little trouble. Recently the JCPS has come down on practices like that and now only students who have come through the Traditional program are admitted. Male has traditionally been the power in Louisville for the JCPS and due to these enrollment restrictions you find less talent there than even 2 years ago. The teams that are really starting to pick up are Manual, who has considerable potential, and obviously Central. Ballard has a new coach who looks to really bring the Bruins up to their potential as well. The prospects are quite good for a number of programs in the Louisville area over the next few years.

 

However since we are talking about top to bottom I still find it quite difficult to give you a legitimate and non-homerish response. Not so much because I am incapable of detaching myself from my school loyalty but more so because we are much more top heavy in Louisville. If you take the top two squads from both areas it is essentially a wash. Trinity and Highlands are almost equal in state titles and success throughout the years. That leaves St.X then with a considerable drop to the next tier of Manual, Central and Ballard, then another considerable drop to Male and Eastern. If we compare them simply school to school that would be interesting but if we are going by total success then it would be hard to pick Louisville over NKY. While Trinity and St.X have a combined 29 state titles in football, and I don't think you can find any other town with two schools who can claim that kind of dominance, we drop to about 5 for Male after that and I am not entirely sure how many Manual has. Although they DO have a national title to their credit from around 50 years ago.

 

If I had to pick I would probably say NKY but only because of success in more than 2 classes. I think if you took the top 2 or 3 squads in both areas and played them against each other regularly that Louisville would probably win more often than not, but it is hypothetical and we cannot prove anything one way or another there. Quality of teams historically is another conundrum I touched on here that would take another LONG post that I don't feel like writing at the moment after all this.

 

Great post:thumb:

It really all depends on how you look at it.

 

Trinity and St.X are heads and shoulders above anyone and everyone in Louisville more often than not. Quite often they are like that across the state. Louisville has some other, solid, squads but they often run afoul of Trinity and St.X as most of the best teams in Louisville are all in 6A. Central is really the only other squad in Louisville with consistent talent to make any noise at any other level. CAL, Holy Cross, DeSales and Western can all be good every so often but they are not consistent and certainly not close to their counterparts in their respective classes.

 

NKY has been traditionally weak at the top in 6A/4A(prior to the reclassification). Boone County was once a powerhouse but never managed to capture a title. All other NKY big schools have really paled in comparison to what Boone County used to be and none have really had the kind of success that the Rebels did either. NKY's biggest strength has been the other classes. For years they had dominant teams in Beechwood, NCC, CovCath and Highlands with the Bluebirds and Tigers being the most successful. And for the most part all three of those teams have stayed dominant and successful. One could argue that Highlands is and has been on par with the big Catholics down in Louisville and that is a legitimate claim with their 17 state titles and constant dominance in what was 3A and now is 5A they are no slouch. Also something to note is that Bob Beatty's first game as Trinity's head coach was actually a defeat at the hands of the Bluebirds in 2000.

 

One of the interesting things to look at in this demographic though is that we are talking about dramatically different situations when comparing NKY and Louisville; especially at the public level. NKY is a number of different counties spread across an area similar in size to Jefferson County(which coincidentally is the city limits of Louisville) and they have a number of different school systems with little to no intermixing as far as attendance is concerned. Which leads to, if there is a superlative class in one area, a program achieving a high level of success for a while then dropping off. Which could happen in Louisville, but often these talents would end up dispersed to many schools where their impact would not be as dramatic therefore diluting the pool because of sheer size. This is of course not taking into account the Independent school systems and the private schools. Interestingly enough the only programs with considerable success in this area.

 

Louisville on the other hand, being 1 continuous school system with open enrollment leads to some interesting developments and shifts in football prowess at some schools, since anyone can pretty much attend any school. For a time just about anyone who looked like a good football player could get into Male with little trouble. Recently the JCPS has come down on practices like that and now only students who have come through the Traditional program are admitted. Male has traditionally been the power in Louisville for the JCPS and due to these enrollment restrictions you find less talent there than even 2 years ago. The teams that are really starting to pick up are Manual, who has considerable potential, and obviously Central. Ballard has a new coach who looks to really bring the Bruins up to their potential as well. The prospects are quite good for a number of programs in the Louisville area over the next few years.

 

However since we are talking about top to bottom I still find it quite difficult to give you a legitimate and non-homerish response. Not so much because I am incapable of detaching myself from my school loyalty but more so because we are much more top heavy in Louisville. If you take the top two squads from both areas it is essentially a wash. Trinity and Highlands are almost equal in state titles and success throughout the years. That leaves St.X then with a considerable drop to the next tier of Manual, Central and Ballard, then another considerable drop to Male and Eastern. If we compare them simply school to school that would be interesting but if we are going by total success then it would be hard to pick Louisville over NKY. While Trinity and St.X have a combined 29 state titles in football, and I don't think you can find any other town with two schools who can claim that kind of dominance, we drop to about 5 for Male after that and I am not entirely sure how many Manual has. Although they DO have a national title to their credit from around 50 years ago.

 

If I had to pick I would probably say NKY but only because of success in more than 2 classes. I think if you took the top 2 or 3 squads in both areas and played them against each other regularly that Louisville would probably win more often than not, but it is hypothetical and we cannot prove anything one way or another there. Quality of teams historically is another conundrum I touched on here that would take another LONG post that I don't feel like writing at the moment after all this.

 

Wow, this resembles one of LN's essays. Very solid post I must say.

PEP,

 

Very well thought out post. You make a lot of good points. However, I do not agree that Male and Eastern are a considerable drop from Ballard, Manual, Central. I will speak to Eastern specifically, 11-2 only losses were to Trinity. Defeated Ballard and Male. Most wins by a 6A public school. Seems to me that they had a solid year.

PEP,

 

Very well thought out post. You make a lot of good points. However, I do not agree that Male and Eastern are a considerable drop from Ballard, Manual, Central. I will speak to Eastern specifically, 11-2 only losses were to Trinity. Defeated Ballard and Male. Most wins by a 6A public school. Seems to me that they had a solid year.

 

I have to agree with Orca. Pep's post is superb, but I think Male, Eastern, and recently Fern Creek (under Coach Higgins) represent Jefferson County very well. Historically, PRP has also been a solid program.

 

Another thought...since "NKY" is a geographic region, not necessarily a single county, I think we have to include the contiguous counties around Louisville in any discussion of "Louisville" area schools - which we do in BGP in just about every other thread.

 

That would bring into play Bullitt East and Oldham County, which over the past 10 years have each had multiple ranked teams (BE will be in PJ's this weekend), plus teams that have just recently emerged as solid programs - North Bullitt, North Oldham, and Bullitt Central. Shelby County, in addition, despite a dismal 1-10 mark this year, has a rich tradition.

 

But - in getting back to the original question - I don't know how you make this an apples-to-apples comparison. Both regions boast powerful programs, including teams that could lay claim to being the single premier program in the state.

Louisville posters are going to vote Louisville and NKY posters will vote NKY. So I guess all we are going to get out of this thread is , how many posters do we have from Louisville and how many do we have from NKY.

Louisville posters are going to vote Louisville and NKY posters will vote NKY. So I guess all we are going to get out of this thread is , how many posters do we have from Louisville and how many do we have from NKY.

 

Exactly, in no way are you going to get real results from this. We all will vote our areas as #1.

Louisville posters are going to vote Louisville and NKY posters will vote NKY. So I guess all we are going to get out of this thread is , how many posters do we have from Louisville and how many do we have from NKY.

 

Exactly, in no way are you going to get real results from this. We all will vote our areas as #1.

 

 

Did you all even bother to read my post? I am actually trying to foster an academic discussion on this matter and you simply dismiss it out of hand. While I put qualifiers in there I did actually address the issue at hand as opposed giving a cop-out saying "why bother, people will just be homers anyway."

 

I would at least like an attempt at a riposte.

PEP,

 

Very well thought out post. You make a lot of good points. However, I do not agree that Male and Eastern are a considerable drop from Ballard, Manual, Central. I will speak to Eastern specifically, 11-2 only losses were to Trinity. Defeated Ballard and Male. Most wins by a 6A public school. Seems to me that they had a solid year.

 

 

I am going by what I saw. Ballard may have lost to Eastern in the regular season but they were really good by season's end which is why I placed them in another tier. Male has also dropped off dramatically over the last two years and I don't see them as comparable to the teams I placed ahead of them.

I think overall nky plays better football. Louisville has only been dominant in one class...6A/4A.

 

If you look at the Louisville schools compared to nky in the rest of the classes it's obvious that NKY seems to dominate against schools of their own size, outside of 6A. I think with SK beating Male this past week end, it really shows how far along the big schools have come up here though.