August 13, 200818 yr And he has pitched out of jams far better than anyone. You don't get there without command of your two best pitches. If he's mechanically broken, let's hear why... We'll disagree on his command. Never said he was mechanically broken, but his release point is inconsistent on his off-speed and has a tendency, to get outside the baseball, thus causing him to miss down/away.
August 13, 200818 yr And he has pitched out of jams far better than anyone. You don't get there without command of your two best pitches. If he's mechanically broken, let's hear why... Doesn't he get get into jams though because of control issues?
August 13, 200818 yr Doesn't he get get into jams though because of control issues?Volquez ERA, with RISP and Bases Loaded, is less than desirable, although limited in innings. His lack of effectiveness in 2-2 and 3-2 counts, is hurting him right now. He'll get even better in time.
August 13, 200818 yr Author Doesn't he get get into jams though because of control issues? It became a big issue in July when hits allowed ballooned. Before that he was not in that much trouble...
August 13, 200818 yr Author His lack of effectiveness in 2-2 and 3-2 counts, is hurting him right now. I'll give you 3-2 counts. With a 2-2 count teams are hitting .189 with an OBP of .198. I'd like to see him close the deal there more as well, but would you rather he groove one to not get to 3-2???
August 13, 200818 yr So you refuse to better last years AWFUL pen with a big time closer because you expect to lose? Give me a break...You don't spend $12M on a less-than-elite closer ...
August 13, 200818 yr You don't spend $12M on a less-than-elite closer ... He was 2nd in the league in saves last season with 44 for a team that only won 83 games, and also had a 49 save year. How do you define elite?
August 13, 200818 yr He was 2nd in the league in saves last season with 44 for a team that only won 83 games, and also had a 49 save year. How do you define elite?Let's not use saves to define a great closer ... saves are more of a reflection of how a pitcher is used than how effective he is. Elite closers are guys like Duncan, Papelbon and K-Rod ... Cordero isn't in that group.
August 13, 200818 yr Let's not use saves to define a great closer ... saves are more of a reflection of how a pitcher is used than how effective he is. Elite closers are guys like Duncan, Papelbon and K-Rod ... Cordero isn't in that group. First off, who the heck is Duncan? Did you mean Mariano Duncan? I think you might have the wrong position, that would be Rivera. Secondly, Cordero had a save in 44 out of Milwaukee's 83 wins last season. He was much better than average and his overall numbers last season are top of the line.
August 13, 200818 yr First off, who the heck is Duncan? Did you mean Mariano Duncan? I think you might have the wrong position, that would be Rivera. Secondly, Cordero had a save in 44 out of Milwaukee's 83 wins last season. He was much better than average and his overall numbers last season are top of the line.Yeah, I meant Rivera ... and I stand by the contention that Cordero isn't an elite closer. "Much better than average" doesn't make him elite.
August 13, 200818 yr Yeah, I meant Rivera ... and I stand by the contention that Cordero isn't an elite closer. "Much better than average" doesn't make him elite. 2007 Stats Cordero - 66 G ,63.1 IP, 52 H, 44 SV, 2.98 ERA Rivera - 67 G, 71.1 IP, 68 H, 30 SV, 3.15 ERA K-Rod - 64 G, 67.1 IP, 50 H, 40 SV, 2.81 ERA Papelbon - 59 G, 58.1 IP, 30 H, 37 SV, 1.85 ERA With the exception of Papelbon, Cordero's numbers were right up there with the so called 'elite' closers last year.
August 13, 200818 yr So stand pat? Awesome. No thanks... They didn't stand pat. They picked up Lincoln, Afeldt, and made some other moves. Their best bullpen arm not named Burton might be in AAA. Name another smaller market team that is looking at giving a pretty good closer that long and that rich of a contract that competes for anything. The teams that have success every once in a while that don't have endless supplies of money don't do stuff like that. Edited August 13, 200818 yr by Latch
August 13, 200818 yr 2007 Stats Cordero - 66 G ,63.1 IP, 52 H, 44 SV, 2.98 ERA Rivera - 67 G, 71.1 IP, 68 H, 30 SV, 3.15 ERA K-Rod - 64 G, 67.1 IP, 50 H, 40 SV, 2.81 ERA Papelbon - 59 G, 58.1 IP, 30 H, 37 SV, 1.85 ERA With the exception of Papelbon, Cordero's numbers were right up there with the so called 'elite' closers last year. He had a great year last year no doubt. Those other teams can afford closers that make his kind of maney b/c they can spend at other positions and they have a chance to win the World Series. The Reds, not so much.
August 13, 200818 yr Regardless of being an "elite" closer, he has made the Reds an elite bullpen. How many innings has he pitched compared to the rest of the pen? He's an updgrade to what they had no doubt, but he's not the only reason they've improved.
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