August 1, 200818 yr So, we are to discount all the Scriptures on baptizing and believing for this one Scripture? Here is a novel concept, how about looking at ALL the Scriptures and say that Christ expects us to do what is said in Matthew 25 and also expects us to be baptized and believe in Him and His sacrifice. Why can we not look at the Scriptures in totality rather than pick and choose the Scriptures that tickles our ears? So you choose to ignore it?? Why would Jesus not mention it, if he was talking about making it to the Kingdom of God?? What about those people to whom Jesus was speaking. They don't have the luxury of the other gospels and cannot read it in its totality. I can only assume that what Jesus taught was sufficient. FWIW, nobody follows the scripture in its entirety. It is not possible. EVERYTHING IS PERMISSABLE!!!!!
August 1, 200818 yr So you choose to ignore it?? Why would Jesus not mention it, if he was talking about making it to the Kingdom of God?? What about those people to whom Jesus was speaking. They don't have the luxury of the other gospels and cannot read it in its totality. I can only assume that what Jesus taught was sufficient. FWIW, nobody follows the scripture in its entirety. It is not possible. EVERYTHING IS PERMISSABLE!!!!! I am not ignoring it. We absolutely HAVE to do that. But there are other Scriptures that indicate that there are other things to do too. Do you really believe that EVERY SINGLE TIME that Jesus opened his mouth, he taught what he expected in totality so that they would know what they were talking about. Cause there are many times he spoke to other crowds and NEVER mentioned Matthew 25. So, are we to ignore Matthew 25 cause when he was talking to the adultress, he did not tell her about Matthew 25? I agree it is not possible but it is what we should strive for rather than say, well, I am going to follow this Scripture but not that one.
August 1, 200818 yr Matthew 28 The Great Commission 16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." I have bolded some key things that Jesus says that I feel are very important. 1) we are not to sit in church and wait for people to come to Jesus at the church but rather be out in the world showing the love of Jesus Christ for each and every person on this planet. Matthew 25 gives us a GREAT INSIGHT into what each one of us who call ourselves CHristians should be doing. But it is not ALL that we should be doing. 2) Baptizing in the name of the Trinity seems pretty daggone clear to me. 3) We are to teach and I quote Jesus here, "EVERYTHING I have commanded you." We are to teach Matthew 25, we are to teach the widow given all she had, we are to teach baptism, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Jesus said teach it all. AND NOTICE he did not say, you might hurt someone's feelings about what I have said, so don't teach it all but rather change what I taught as society changes to be more open to people's lifestyles. He said teach it all.
August 1, 200818 yr Matthew 28 The Great Commission 16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." I have bolded some key things that Jesus says that I feel are very important. 1) we are not to sit in church and wait for people to come to Jesus at the church but rather be out in the world showing the love of Jesus Christ for each and every person on this planet. Matthew 25 gives us a GREAT INSIGHT into what each one of us who call ourselves CHristians should be doing. But it is not ALL that we should be doing. 2) Baptizing in the name of the Trinity seems pretty daggone clear to me. 3) We are to teach and I quote Jesus here, "EVERYTHING I have commanded you." We are to teach Matthew 25, we are to teach the widow given all she had, we are to teach baptism, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Jesus said teach it all. AND NOTICE he did not say, you might hurt someone's feelings about what I have said, so don't teach it all but rather change what I taught as society changes to be more open to people's lifestyles. He said teach it all. One could make the argument that the use of Baptism was to make a bridge between Jewish and the New Christian theology.
August 1, 200818 yr One could make the argument that the use of Baptism was to make a bridge between Jewish and the New Christian theology. Not sure what you mean by this, I just know that Jesus said to baptize. That seems pretty clear cut to me.
August 1, 200818 yr Not sure what you mean by this, I just know that Jesus said to baptize. That seems pretty clear cut to me. When I read the Bible, I first look at the historical context it was said it. I believe Jesus at the time was trying to win over the Jewish community who were unsatisfied with the faith and the way it was being run. Taking aspects of Judaism and even the Religion of Israel and making them Christian was a way to draw other Jews in.
August 1, 200818 yr When I read the Bible, I first look at the historical context it was said it. I believe Jesus at the time was trying to win over the Jewish community who were unsatisfied with the faith and the way it was being run. Taking aspects of Judaism and even the Religion of Israel and making them Christian was a way to draw other Jews in. Except in Matthew 28, he said ALL NATIONS. The promise to Abraham from God, said ALL NATIONS. I think that Israel wanted to think that it was all about them, but from the beginning (promise to Abraham) God seems to be looking to ALL NATIONS.
August 1, 200818 yr Except in Matthew 28, he said ALL NATIONS. The promise to Abraham from God, said ALL NATIONS. I think that Israel wanted to think that it was all about them, but from the beginning (promise to Abraham) God seems to be looking to ALL NATIONS. All nations could refer to all the tribes of Israel, the local nations, and a number of other things. Matthew 28 is towards the end of the story when we get to the resurrection which could be considered over exaggerated or false. I tend to take what he had to say in the earlier part of the story more reliable.
August 5, 200818 yr As my grandmother would say that's picking nat poop from the pepper pile. Your arguing semantics that really have no bearing. While in the Church, I was always taught that Baptism was an outward show of an inward transformation. While it is important in the Christian faith to show that transformation through the outward action of Baptism, I do not think it makes or breaks one's salvation through Christ; if such a salvation exists. Is there a verse that shows this? There might be, I just don't know.
August 5, 200818 yr Addressing Trojans' point: Christ himself was baptised prior to his own resurrection to show us the example. On another note: To me this is another one of those "Plank v/s Speck" issues. Satan has polluted this issue so that Christians fight with each other - bickering and hindering the gospel from spreading because of the negative, judgemental, I know I'm right attitudes. Christ had no sin and therefore no need to be baptised. He was baptised to "fulfill all righetousness." What that means I really don't know but he was baptised. It is important to remember that there are different types of baptism in the NT: John's baptism of repentence The baptism of fire The baptism to fulfill all righteousness (Jesus baptism) And the baptism for remission of sins I am speaking of the latter when speaking of baptism for salvation. The ones in the bible that take place after Christ's resurrection.
August 5, 200818 yr So, we are to discount all the Scriptures on baptizing and believing for this one Scripture? Here is a novel concept, how about looking at ALL the Scriptures and say that Christ expects us to do what is said in Matthew 25 and also expects us to be baptized and believe in Him and His sacrifice. Why can we not look at the Scriptures in totality rather than pick and choose the Scriptures that tickles our ears? I agree. People often ignore Gal 3:27, 1 Pet 3:21, Rom 6:4, Acts 2:38, etc. etc. Edited August 5, 200818 yr by Trojans sp
August 5, 200818 yr "cast the first stone" "judge not, lest ye be judged" "walk a mile in their shoes" "people who live in glass houses shouldnt throw rocks" These quotes became cliches because of their validity. I always try to keep them in mind!!
August 5, 200818 yr So you choose to ignore it?? Why would Jesus not mention it, if he was talking about making it to the Kingdom of God?? What about those people to whom Jesus was speaking. They don't have the luxury of the other gospels and cannot read it in its totality. I can only assume that what Jesus taught was sufficient. FWIW, nobody follows the scripture in its entirety. It is not possible. EVERYTHING IS PERMISSABLE!!!!! We should try! And when we fail we should pray for forgiveness.
August 6, 200818 yr Everything is permissable???? Everything is permissable but not everything is beneficial. Paul
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