You KNOW that is apples and oranges!

 

Again, you seem to see this as an all or nothing proposition. If someone stands up for personal responsibility, they're a heartless monster who just doesn't understand how hard the poor kids of today really have it.

 

Well, it's not that simple.

 

 

No, I do not see it as an all or nothing. But that's how your posts that I originally too exception to seemed. And, I'm not accusing anyone of being a heartless monster. I'm trying to get everyone to understand that there are more things to consider than some frustrated, poorly worded responses by frustrated students. Everyone is jumping on these kids, but no one's asking them to explain why they aren't able to work more, or what obstacles they are trying to overcome while trying to go to school. There were responses thrown out that seemed, to me, ridiculously simplistic as solutions. And there were responses that chastised them for expecting finacial aid. If a student is in a compromised financial position, one thing to remember is that everyone is telling them there is no reason they can't go to college these days, because there is all this financial aid available. I've seen it posted on here over and over in the P&R forum when we talk about welfare abusers, etc.

There were responses thrown out that seemed, to me, ridiculously simplistic as solutions. And there were responses that chastised them for expecting finacial aid...

 

I think it all comes down to expectations vs. entitlements.

 

I expect to wake up tomorrow. I do not feel entitled to wake up tomorrow.

 

College students can reasonably expect some sort of financial aid, but when it doesn't arrive, they should not feel entitled to it. Many may deserve more, while many may deserve less. Thankfully, that's not my decision.

And I have already agreed to that sentiment. However, I found your earilier statement to be both offensive and unbecoming of you. Sure, anyone that has seen a clip from MTV's "Sweet 16" can make a judgement call about the younger generation, but many of the hardest workers I know are around my age or younger, and entitlement is nonexistent to them. They work for what they need and don't ask for things even if they know people will give it to them.

 

:thumb:

I think you know very well I wasn't talking about your kids. :madman:

 

And I dang sure wasn't generalizing either. I know it's tough these days. But I think it's always been tough. It's tougher for some than it is for others. If you look back at the posts that preceeded my comment, I think you'll see that my comment was simply a question based on the statement that was made.

 

Malachicrunch posted the following:

 

Where is it written that your parents or the gov't should provide a college education for the young adults? I was provided with a place to live while I was in school. I would have loved to have gone away to school, but guess what, I couldn't afford to. So I stayed home, and went to school at the local college, took on loans, and worked. A couple of my friends in the same situation as myself, went into the military to pay for their college.

 

Another poster replied with this:

 

Times are a little different now then they were back then, though.

 

I don't have to defend my response; but I felt that this reply (along with several others) was suggesting that kids today are owed something or deserve to have everything done for them. That just isn't true. You aren't born deserving to have thngs handed to you. Life owes you nothing...and often, it pays you exactly that. Yes, prices have gone up. That's inflation.

 

I just get really upset when kids start suggesting that they shouldn't have to work, save, or sacrifice for their education, or anything else. You, more than anyone I know, should agree with that.

 

Did you not read the other posts I made, BF? I am sure you did, but of course you would rather just point out the negative. Thanks for the shot you took. :irked:

By the way BF, I am heading to work right now.

Did you not read the other posts I made, BF? I am sure you did, but of course you would rather just point out the negative. Thanks for the shot you took. :irked:

I thought you were done with this thread? JK

I see that too but you can guarantee that I am not one of them. I have worked for what I have got in my life. The car I am driving right now I am working to pay off. I am paying car payment plus full coverage insurance plus my bills.

I am not picking on you with this reply so please don't take that way.

 

You use the example that the car you have you are working to pay for. That you are paying a car payment and full coverage insurance plus your bills. Thats great and all but I would bet that most of the "older and wiser" didn't have a car payment or have to carry full coverage insurance. Why would you have a car payment? My mom and dad both went to UK. My mom didn't even have car and my dad shared one with his brother who was also at UK, and it wasn't any more then something to get back and forth with. If anyone is struggle with tuition then at the best thing you should be able to say about their car is all the tires have air in them. Buy something for less then $1000 that runs and put the cheapest liability insurance you can find. You would be paying $50 a month in stead of the $300 you are probalby paying now.

So, here's a dilemma....you're going to private college, for instance. You've received a scholarship that covers roughly half the cost, but you're on your own for the one half. You get loans to cover the other half, and contribute, and your family contributes. If you don't keep your scholarship, the whole house of cards falls, and you have to leave that school. Do you risk your scholarship to work more and potentially have your grades suffer? Or do you work as much as you can, without sacrificing your time to study? Oh...and the town where your school is located doesn't have any opportunities where employers pay your tuition.

I would assume you are talking about your son. I don't envy him or you having to pay for even half of UE.

I am not picking on you with this reply so please don't take that way.

 

You use the example that the car you have you are working to pay for. That you are paying a car payment and full coverage insurance plus your bills. Thats great and all but I would bet that most of the "older and wiser" didn't have a car payment or have to carry full coverage insurance. Why would you have a car payment? My mom and dad both went to UK. My mom didn't even have car and my dad shared one with his brother who was also at UK, and it wasn't any more then something to get back and forth with. If anyone is struggle with tuition then at the best thing you should be able to say about their car is all the tires have air in them. Buy something for less then $1000 that runs and put the cheapest liability insurance you can find. You would be paying $50 a month in stead of the $300 you are probalby paying now.

 

Yep, I had a 73 Pontiac Grand Am which I purchased for 400.00. Never had full coverage

Did you not read the other posts I made, BF? I am sure you did, but of course you would rather just point out the negative. Thanks for the shot you took. :irked:

What I pointed out was the OBVIOUS. There was nothing more to say.

I think you know very well I wasn't talking about your kids. :madman:

 

And I dang sure wasn't generalizing either. I know it's tough these days. But I think it's always been tough. It's tougher for some than it is for others. If you look back at the posts that preceeded my comment, I think you'll see that my comment was simply a question based on the statement that was made.

 

Malachicrunch posted the following:

 

Where is it written that your parents or the gov't should provide a college education for the young adults? I was provided with a place to live while I was in school. I would have loved to have gone away to school, but guess what, I couldn't afford to. So I stayed home, and went to school at the local college, took on loans, and worked. A couple of my friends in the same situation as myself, went into the military to pay for their college.

 

Another poster replied with this:

 

Times are a little different now then they were back then, though.

 

I don't have to defend my response; but I felt that this reply (along with several others) was suggesting that kids today are owed something or deserve to have everything done for them. That just isn't true. You aren't born deserving to have thngs handed to you. Life owes you nothing...and often, it pays you exactly that. Yes, prices have gone up. That's inflation.

 

I just get really upset when kids start suggesting that they shouldn't have to work, save, or sacrifice for their education, or anything else. You, more than anyone I know, should agree with that.

 

Does your paycheck go up 13% every year? Even if it did, 13% of $#.## is not NEARLY comparable to 13% of $#####.## of tuition hikes.

 

Again, I'm not trying to argue any point of entitlement. But I AM going to argue that it's getting too hard for too many people to afford college, and that SOMETHING needs to be done. More athletic funding going towards the school perhaps?

 

Keep in mind, when I say too hard, I mean TOO hard. It's supposed to be hard, even very hard, but when I say "TOO hard" I mean, no matter how hard you work or how much you sacrifice in then end you will not make it.

Yep, I had a 73 Pontiac Grand Am which I purchased for 400.00. Never had full coverage

 

Mine was a 69 Chevelle that I bought for $50.00. Of course, it cost me more than that to keep oil in it but it got me to school.

Again, I'm not trying to argue any point of entitlement.

And that was the only point I was commenting on. Others made my original comment out to be something it definitely was not.

I would assume you are talking about your son. I don't envy him or you having to pay for even half of UE.

 

 

Not just my son...there are quite a few college students at UE, Bellarmine and a couple of other colleges I know that face the same issue. FWIW, we have found that it's easier to come up with a significant financial aid package at a private institution, but unfortunately since the tuition and fees are higher it's really all relative, I'd say. People have told us that he shouldn't have gone that route. But, like private high schools, a lot of these institutions offer certain aspects that public colleges don't. And, when you're talking about your future, I can see why students elect to tough it out and stay in the private institution.

 

I don't have a problem with expecting college students to work. I do have a problem with expecting that in a general sense, without knowing the student's course load, major, etc. There are situations where students are in situations where they don't have access to employers who pay tuition, for instance. I don't think it's right to just tell them to switch schools, or move.

 

As I stated earlier, if my tax dollars are going somewhere, I'd rather them be to financial aid than welfare, for instance. A kid who graduates college likely isn't going to be sitting at home drawing a check.

 

Maybe if we devoted more to financial aid reform, welfare reform would occur naturally.

Before any student spends or borrows a fortune to go to college, I'd strongly advise them to consider why they are going to college and why they are attending the college they chose.

 

A couple of points here.

 

1a) IMNSHO, college is a waste of money for many students. Certain professions require you to get either an undergraduate or graduate degree. Some of these jobs will never make you millionaires and may take years and years to recover your education costs. Is your career choice important enough to you that the payback is a minor or nonfactor?

 

1b) Too many students run up education bills for classes and degrees they will never use. I'd love to return to school and take a number of classes in math, science and history. But its expensive and unpractical for me. Don't get me wrong. College teaches you many viewpoints that are hard to find elsewhere. You have to decide if its worth it.

 

2)Somebody has already mentioned this but I think it needs to be reiterated. Do you really need to attend that $10-20k school to take general study classes? Wouldn't it make more sense to attend a local or community college to get some of those classes out of the way for a fraction of the cost?

 

3) Finally, when you visit schools, please talk to the financial aid office. School A may cost more than School B, but you may be eligible for more aid at School A. Also, the financial aid people can make you aware of other alternatives available to you like work study, other grants and scholarships, etc.

 

IMNSHO = In my not so humble opinion.