Wow....

I too was blown away at how perceptive he was.

Wow....

Thanks! :thumb:

Thanks! :thumb:

 

 

That wasn't a good wow.

That wasn't a good wow.

I would be shocked if you didn't see that my question was completely warrented, based on the comments that were being made. :eek:

 

I mean, come on.

How about doing great in high school and getting an academic scholarship. I am real close to a person that did this. Was this person the smartest one in high school? Not even close, but was the hardest working and most dedicated to achieve the only way college was possible. Full rideto Villa Madonna (now TMC), 2 degrees. This person is my mother, whose family was dirt poor. I attribute much of my successes in life to her. Years ago when my kids were very young, I was lamenting saving for their college education. My mother pointed out to me that paying for their college education was not my responsibilty. My responsibility was to try to instill the drive and work ethic in them to succeed in whatever path they chose.

 

This brings up an interesting point... should a high schooler be forced to focus on one or fewer aspects of their high school career or can it be possible for them to be compensating for being active in multiple areas? For instance, I went to Manual (with the academic requirements, and extremely competitive scholastic environment, it's not the easiest school to stand out in), played football all 4 years, was in scouting (Eagle was earned too late for a scholly, plus GPA needed to be 3.5, mine was 3.17), and worked fron Sophomore year on. Now I'm not saying these things to either brag, OR whine, however I feel that had I dropped one or the other then I would've been able to put more energy into any of those certain areas and therefore had more financial aid for college. As I said earlier, I did what I had to and made it out with a degree at UofL, but there was no way I was going to stop doing anything I was doing in high school, even if it would've helped me out. They made me who I am today.

 

But goodness, I would've saved a ton of money...

 

...so what's more important, really?

 

Also, in regards to tuition in general; it's not OWED to any of us, but I'll be darned if it isn't simply too expensive for far more people than it used to/should be (Birdsfan, you know I love ya buddy, but my oldest brother paid half of what I paid for tuition and he's only 8 years older than me. The rate they are raising tuition is past unbearable for many people and only getting worse). I don't plan on having children until I'm 90 (long story), but I'm saving money for their college tuition even today (at 23).

Also, in regards to tuition in general; it's not OWED to any of us, but I'll be darned if it isn't simply too expensive for far more people than it used to/should be (Birdsfan, you know I love ya buddy, but my oldest brother paid half of what I paid for tuition and he's only 8 years older than me. The rate they are raising tuition is past unbearable for many people and only getting worse). I don't plan on having children until I'm 90 (long story), but I'm saving money for their college tuition even today (at 23).

I don't care how much he's paying. That doesn't change my opinion one bit toward those who express a sense of entitlement -- those who say they "deserve" or are "owed" this or that.

I would be shockeed if you didn't believe my question was warrented. :eek:

 

I mean, come on.

 

 

I think you're generalizing, and that there are more considerations before you go calling these kids lazy and feeling entitled.

 

We don't know what these kids' majors are, what amount of effort it takes for them to maintain their GPA, what other financial considerations they have.

 

I don't consider a kid feeling entitled if he or she is expecting financial aid. It doesn't sound to me as if they're expecting a full free ride, just some help.

 

The financial aid process is complicated and confusing. As HHSDad described.

 

My son works a job, but can't work much. This summer, he took a 40/hour per week internship which knocked him out of working full time for over half the summer. He had to take a loan out so he could pay for those credit hours. In the fall, he'll be carrying 21 hours again, and frankly, I don't want him working too much. If he loses his scholarship, it's all over for him. He can't afford that school without it. I do contribute, every way I can. But, I don't think it's a stretch to say that I wish we could get more grants and bigger loans. Does that make either him or me lazy or "feeling entitled"? Every year tuiton goes up, and financial aid award amounts go down. We tell our kids it's imperative they go to college, and get a degree. We tell them to study hard and get a scholarship (which are pretty scarce in the relative scheme of things). I'm fortunate my son got the scholarship he did. It was significant, and he worked hard to get it...and he's worked hard to keep it. But not all students are of the same abilities. Should we penalize them for not being academically gifted? Or not qualifying for a certain scholarship for another reason?

 

We talk about how kids are lazy, etc. Yet, here are kids in school, trying to do the right thing and make things better for themselves. They are trying to. We tell them there is financial aid available.

 

Now, we're telling kids we don't know that they should get a job that pays the tuition, just switch schools if they're not in an area that has such an employer. Really, it's not as simple as that.

 

I get really disgusted with the way some people have decided that they have all the answers...that what worked for them will be the answer for everyone else. It's not that simple.

I don't care how much he's paying. That doesn't change my opinion one bit toward those who express a sense of entitlement -- those who say they "deserve" or are "owed" this or that.

 

And I have already agreed to that sentiment. However, I found your earilier statement to be both offensive and unbecoming of you. Sure, anyone that has seen a clip from MTV's "Sweet 16" can make a judgement call about the younger generation, but many of the hardest workers I know are around my age or younger, and entitlement is nonexistent to them. They work for what they need and don't ask for things even if they know people will give it to them.

I think you're generalizing, and that there are more considerations before you go calling these kids lazy and feeling entitled.

 

My son works a job, but can't work much. This summer, he took a 40/hour per week internship which knocked him out of working full time for over half the summer. He had to take a loan out so he could pay for those credit hours. In the fall, he'll be carrying 21 hours again, and frankly, I don't want him working too much. If he loses his scholarship, it's all over for him. He can't afford that school without it. I do contribute, every way I can. But, I don't think it's a stretch to say that I wish we could get more grants and bigger loans. Does that make either him or me lazy or "feeling entitled"?

I think you know very well I wasn't talking about your kids. :madman:

 

And I dang sure wasn't generalizing either. I know it's tough these days. But I think it's always been tough. It's tougher for some than it is for others. If you look back at the posts that preceeded my comment, I think you'll see that my comment was simply a question based on the statement that was made.

 

Malachicrunch posted the following:

 

Where is it written that your parents or the gov't should provide a college education for the young adults? I was provided with a place to live while I was in school. I would have loved to have gone away to school, but guess what, I couldn't afford to. So I stayed home, and went to school at the local college, took on loans, and worked. A couple of my friends in the same situation as myself, went into the military to pay for their college.

 

Another poster replied with this:

 

Times are a little different now then they were back then, though.

 

I don't have to defend my response; but I felt that this reply (along with several others) was suggesting that kids today are owed something or deserve to have everything done for them. That just isn't true. You aren't born deserving to have thngs handed to you. Life owes you nothing...and often, it pays you exactly that. Yes, prices have gone up. That's inflation.

 

I just get really upset when kids start suggesting that they shouldn't have to work, save, or sacrifice for their education, or anything else. You, more than anyone I know, should agree with that.

I think you know very well I wasn't talking about your kids. :madman:

 

And I dang sure wasn't generalizing either. I know it's tough these days. But I think it's always been tough. It's tougher for some than it is for others. If you look back at the posts that preceeded my comment, I think you'll see that my comment was simply a question based on the statement that was made.

 

Malachicrunch posted the following:

 

Where is it written that your parents or the gov't should provide a college education for the young adults? I was provided with a place to live while I was in school. I would have loved to have gone away to school, but guess what, I couldn't afford to. So I stayed home, and went to school at the local college, took on loans, and worked. A couple of my friends in the same situation as myself, went into the military to pay for their college.

 

Another poster replied with this:

 

Times are a little different now then they were back then, though.

 

I don't have to defend my response; but I felt that this reply (along with several others) was suggesting that kids today are owed something or deserve to have everything done for them. That just isn't true. You aren't born deserving to have thngs handed to you. Life owes you nothing...and often, it pays you exactly that. Yes, prices have gone up. That's inflation.

 

I just get really upset when kids start suggesting that they shouldn't have to work, save, or sacrifice for their education, or anything else. You, more than anyone I know, should agree with that.

 

I didn't take any of the posts you quoted above to mean that the students didn't expect to work. And I don't think they meant they want things handed to them. Maybe the posted poorly worded responses, but that isn't at all what I got from their posts.

 

If you're mad, I'm sorry. But I don't agree with everyone jumping on these kids who are voicing their frustration. And I will defend them. People could easily be saying the same of my kids right now. Some may call my daughter a failure because she chose not to go back to school. She spent 3 semesters racking up loans and debt and had no idea what she wanted to do. She wasn't doing well, and she was miserable. So, she quit going to school. She's still paying back the loans. That was almost 3 years ago. But, she's no closer to knowing what she wants to do in life than she was then. If she hadn't quit, she'd be even further in debt, and still have no idea what she wanted to major in.

 

I think that times are different now. I think that the kids today have a rough time trying to balance the demands of school, financial responsibilities, and it sucks! Tuition rises every year, and financial aid awards are less and less. Without a scholarship to off-set some of the costs from the beginning, kids today leave college saddled with debt, and have a tougher time finding employment in their field when they leave. I don't blame them for being frustrated.

 

Again, just because one person could do it one way means that it will work for another person. It's easy to sit back and say, "Well, I did it. There's no reason he can't." Again, we don't know all the facts.

I didn't take any of the posts you quoted above to mean that the students didn't expect to work. And I don't think they meant they want things handed to them. Maybe the posted poorly worded responses, but that isn't at all what I got from their posts.

 

If you're mad, I'm sorry. But I don't agree with everyone jumping on these kids who are voicing their frustration. And I will defend them. People could easily be saying the same of my kids right now. Some may call my daughter a failure because she chose not to go back to school. She spent 3 semesters racking up loans and debt and had no idea what she wanted to do. She wasn't doing well, and she was miserable. So, she quit going to school. She's still paying back the loans. That was almost 3 years ago. But, she's no closer to knowing what she wants to do in life than she was then. If she hadn't quit, she'd be even further in debt, and still have no idea what she wanted to major in.

 

I think that times are different now. I think that the kids today have a rough time trying to balance the demands of school, financial responsibilities, and it sucks! Tuition rises every year, and financial aid awards are less and less. Without a scholarship to off-set some of the costs from the beginning, kids today leave college saddled with debt, and have a tougher time finding employment in their field when they leave. I don't blame them for being frustrated.

 

Again, just because one person could do it one way means that it will work for another person. It's easy to sit back and say, "Well, I did it. There's no reason he can't." Again, we don't know all the facts.

 

Bravo bravo. Best two posts in this thread are made by Rockmom. :thumb::thumb::thumb:

Well get used to having to do things that you don't want to do, because that's real world. Join the military and faithfully serve your country if that's what it takes for you to afford your college, whether you want to be in the military or not. Or take a full time job and go to school part time. Sure it will take you longer to get your degree, but so what. Life isn't easy and it shouldn't be.

 

My parents couldn't afford to do much to help my Centre tuition but they did what they could. By the time I finished my education, I was up to my wazoo in debt. It was still a good investment. So you can't afford that shiny sports car or the big screen TV, or you can't afford to go clubbing but once a month for years after you graduate until you pay off your education loans. So what. Again, that's life. You don't always, heck usually, get what you want. Not now and probably not later in life. Heck, I'm considerable to be a successful partner in a large law firm and there are plenty of things I want to own or do that I haven't owned or done and probably never will. I don't expect someone else to just give me money so I can buy the things I want or do the things that I want.

 

Nobody owes you financial aid; nobody owes you anything.

 

Great post!

 

In my day the rich folks went away to college. The rest of us went to a local college and/or worked our way through. A BIG night was pizza at a friends house or driving around all night (gas was much cheaper in those days).

 

Now, college is a "given" and too many wealthy kids or those with "financial aid" party and flunk out first semester. Too many kids raised in the "I deserve it" generation. That was almost unheard of in my time. College was EARNED in more ways than one, and it was definately more appreciated.

 

Off my soapbox for now.

Great post!

 

In my day the rich folks went away to college. The rest of us went to a local college and/or worked our way through. A BIG night was pizza at a friends house or driving around all night (gas was much cheaper in those days).

 

Now, college is a "given" and too many wealthy kids or those with "financial aid" party and flunk out first semester. Too many kids raised in the "I deserve it" generation. That was almost unheard of in my time. College was EARNED in more ways than one, and it was definately more appreciated.

 

Off my soapbox for now.

 

 

My mom has said this to me many times growing up. Today, a college graduate is compared to someone who graduated from highschool when she was growing up. Also a Master's degree is like an undergrad degree. Times have changed. I'm not saying that people have to go to college in today's society to be successful in life, but it is more expected than 10-20 years ago. And with the tuition rates going up every year, its hard for some to be able to make it work.

If you're mad, I'm sorry. But I don't agree with everyone jumping on these kids who are voicing their frustration. And I will defend them. People could easily be saying the same of my kids right now. Some may call my daughter a failure because she chose not to go back to school. She spent 3 semesters racking up loans and debt and had no idea what she wanted to do.

You KNOW that is apples and oranges!

 

Again, just because one person could do it one way means that it will work for another person. It's easy to sit back and say, "Well, I did it. There's no reason he can't." Again, we don't know all the facts.

Again, you seem to see this as an all or nothing proposition. If someone stands up for personal responsibility, they're a heartless monster who just doesn't understand how hard the poor kids of today really have it.

 

Well, it's not that simple.

Now, college is a "given" and too many wealthy kids or those with "financial aid" party and flunk out first semester. Too many kids raised in the "I deserve it" generation. That was almost unheard of in my time. College was EARNED in more ways than one, and it was definately more appreciated.

Right on. :thumb: