There was a case at Louisville Male a few years ago where a freshman science teacher was failing almost 70% of her students. She was giving failing grades on assignments and tests for things like the staple being in the wrong corner, the name not being in the right place etc. One incident that was reported was that she failed an enire row of students on an assignment because when they passeed their papers forward they didn't keep them in the proper order. She also had a history of being verbally abusive to her students. This was not a new teacher, as I recall she had over 10 years experience. The principal tried to remove her from the classroom but the JCTA (the teachers union) blocked it. It took almost 2 years to get this person out of the classroom and even then because of tenure this person wasn't fired, she was reassigned to a non-teaching position at the board of education. As far as I know she is still employed by the JCPS and appealing (with the JCTA's backing) her removal from the classroom. I know this is one isolated incident BUT if tenure can protect even one bad teacher at the expense of her students isn't that one to many?

:thumb:Thank-you..

 

You will not get any concessions from this group.

 

It's funny, because every time teachers' salaries are brought up on this board it is someone complaining that they are paid too much, and then complaining that they are sick of hearing teachers “whine” about being underpaid. Perhaps I don’t have my finger on the pulse of Kentucky’s teachers (apparently most here have managed that feat) but I haven’t seen any of that on this board. I do see a lot of whining about the effectiveness of education in this state, from me especially. But, I for one do not possess the fanciful notion that a reduction in teachers’ salaries, or paying them what they’re worth (according to most posters) will produce a better education system.

It's funny, because every time teachers' salaries are brought up on this board it is someone complaining that they are paid too much, and then complaining that they are sick of hearing teachers “whine” about being underpaid. Perhaps I don’t have my finger on the pulse of Kentucky’s teachers (apparently most here have managed that feat) but I haven’t seen any of that on this board. I do see a lot of whining about the effectiveness of education in this state, from me especially. But, I for one do not possess the fanciful notion that a reduction in teachers’ salaries, or paying them what they’re worth (according to most posters) will produce a better education system.

 

Why repost my post? Your response has nothing to do with what I have posted in this thread:confused:

WOW!!!!

 

Grading portfolio papers, grading open response questions that are requirements on most schools final exams are not easy.

 

Especially, when the state guidelines hamstring a teacher. You need to find a way to tell the student that their portfolio paper is wrong and the changes they need to make in it without telling them the changes they need to make in it because then it wouldn't be considered their portfolio piece.

 

I taught Entrepreneurship for 10 years. Students required to put together a 30 page business prospectus for their final exam. About 20 students. I will let you use your HHS math skills to put together the page numbers to read and comment on for class over Christmas break.

 

In addition, I had several other classes that the students could choose a manual/project instead of simply a tests.

 

Many Christmases I would end up with 50 20-30 page manuals to read and HAVE to have finished and graded by the first day back. Along with the late assignments and work of the other 100-some students.

 

I guess for the unknowing person it wouldn't be much difference than a lawyer and sitting and reading legal briefs and law case history.:sssh:

 

I'm not sure I qualify as an unknowing person as my brother currently teaches and my sister is a retired teacher. I have spent time with them during the Christmas holidays (not as much as I'd have liked because while they were sitting on the couch doing their "work", I was in the office getting deals closed that had to close by year end). But I have a really good idea what teachers do during the holidays. I was lucky to get home from the office on Christmas Eve by noon and get Christmas Day off. That was it. This past week of "Spring Break" I spent three of the vacation days driving back and forth one and a half hours each way to our Florida office because I have a deal closing Tuesday. In fact, I'm in the office right now on a very nice Sunday afternoon, taking a break from reviewing complicated ESOP documents, to make this post. Ask either one of my siblings and they'll tell you that they don't/didn't work anywhere near the hours that I do and a lot of their time was in fact busy work. And for what its worth my brother is a very highly acclaimed teacher and my sister was before she retired. Both of them have told me that they would not have my job for all the tea in China because of the time and mental strain involved. I mess up this multimillion dollar deal that I'm working on and I get sued for malpractice. My home and all my material possessions are at risk. You mess up a teaching assignment and what happens to you, particularly if you have tenure? You mess up reviewing one of your 20-30 page high school written manual and what happens? I mess up reading a contract and I cost my client millions of dollars. Yes, I consider what you do on your Christmas break as low stress busy work.

 

I'm sorry, but teachers ask for some of the grief that they catch. I value teaching very highly. It is part of the reason that I am where I am today. I appreciate what teachers do. Some good teachers are underpaid, no doubt about it. But when you knowingly join an occupation that pays the good and the poor teachers the same, when you knowingly join an occupation that provides the level of job security that tenure does to poor teachers, you can't then complain about the occupation. I'd have a lot more respect for the teaching profession if the teachers led the charge to get rid of tenure and the teachers' union. I don't complain about my hours or the pressure on me because, by gummit it, I asked to do this. When I decide that I don't want to do it anymore, I won't. Actually as Henry knows, I plan on doing this for about 8-10 more years and then going back to school, get my teaching certificate and become a teacher. And when I do so, you can bet well and good that you won't be reading posts from me on here about had bad I have it because I will have made the choice to become a teacher knowingly and voluntarily.

 

Perhaps people have a rub (I do) with teachers is that on one hand they claim to be a professional, yet on the other hand have tenure protecting them. I know that regardless of how many years I practice law, I have no tenure or union protecting me. I don't need a union to protect me. Either I am worth the value my partners think I am or I am not. Teachers want to be paid more, but fail to consider the economic problems with all teachers with the same experience getting paid the same.

 

I'd love to debate this more, but I have to get back to my deal. Hopefully I won't mess it up or I'll have one very, very angry banking client and a whole lot of irritated partners when the bank calls them up and wants to know the name of our malpractice carrier.

I'm not sure I qualify as an unknowing person as my brother currently teaches and my sister is a retired teacher. I have spent time with them during the Christmas holidays (not as much as I'd have liked because while they were sitting on the couch doing their "work", I was in the office getting deals closed that had to close by year end). But I have a really good idea what teachers do during the holidays. I was lucky to get home from the office on Christmas Eve by noon and get Christmas Day off. That was it. This past week of "Spring Break" I spent three of the vacation days driving back and forth one and a half hours each way to our Florida office because I have a deal closing Tuesday. In fact, I'm in the office right now on a very nice Sunday afternoon, taking a break from reviewing complicated ESOP documents, to make this post. Ask either one of my siblings and they'll tell you that they don't/didn't work anywhere near the hours that I do and a lot of their time was in fact busy work. And for what its worth my brother is a very highly acclaimed teacher and my sister was before she retired. Both of them have told me that they would not have my job for all the tea in China because of the time and mental strain involved. I mess up this multimillion dollar deal that I'm working on and I get sued for malpractice. My home and all my material possessions are at risk. You mess up a teaching assignment and what happens to you, particularly if you have tenure? You mess up reviewing one of your 20-30 page high school written manual and what happens? I mess up reading a contract and I cost my client millions of dollars. Yes, I consider what you do on your Christmas break as low stress busy work.

 

I'm sorry, but teachers ask for some of the grief that they catch. I value teaching very highly. It is part of the reason that I am where I am today. I appreciate what teachers do. Some good teachers are underpaid, no doubt about it. But when you knowingly join an occupation that pays the good and the poor teachers the same, when you knowingly join an occupation that provides the level of job security that tenure does to poor teachers, you can't then complain about the occupation. I'd have a lot more respect for the teaching profession if the teachers led the charge to get rid of tenure and the teachers' union. I don't complain about my hours or the pressure on me because, by gummit it, I asked to do this. When I decide that I don't want to do it anymore, I won't. Actually as Henry knows, I plan on doing this for about 8-10 more years and then going back to school, get my teaching certificate and become a teacher. And when I do so, you can bet well and good that you won't be reading posts from me on here about had bad I have it because I will have made the choice to become a teacher knowingly and voluntarily.

 

Perhaps people have a rub (I do) with teachers is that on one hand they claim to be a professional, yet on the other hand have tenure protecting them. I know that regardless of how many years I practice law, I have no tenure or union protecting me. I don't need a union to protect me. Either I am worth the value my partners think I am or I am not. Teachers want to be paid more, but fail to consider the economic problems with all teachers with the same experience getting paid the same.

 

I'd love to debate this more, but I have to get back to my deal. Hopefully I won't mess it up or I'll have one very, very angry banking client and a whole lot of irritated partners when the bank calls them up and wants to know the name of our malpractice carrier.

 

I am in here in my classroom, just taking a break before I get started again on lesson plans and making sure that I have everything ready for the lessons of the week. Man I am glad that I am off on Sunday!

I am in here in my classroom, just taking a break before I get started again on lesson plans and making sure that I have everything ready for the lessons of the week. Man I am glad that I am off on Sunday!

 

During bball season, I spent numerous weekend hours at a local school. I don't ever recall seeing a teacher. Now the custodian, that dude was always working.

Last thought. I want to send a huge thank you to the Special Needs teachers. These people are amazing. They are underpaid. Thank you for everything you do.:thumb:

As much as I love BGP, this is the only place that I have every been or the only people that I have ever talked to that have tried to make be feel shameful for my job.

 

Done.

To recap:

 

Kentucky ranks 45th in median household income, 48th in graduates with a 4 year degree and 44th in high school graduates. Smells like correlation to me.

 

I mean, imagine the shocking headlines in the newspapers tomorrow: "Lower median household income tied to lower educational attainment."

 

And, so, should it be shocking that in a state that beats only Arkansas, Mississippi and West Virginia in the percentage of college graduates, that teachers make more than the median household income? Only 21% of our population over the age of 25 has a college degree... wouldn't we expect nearly all of them to do better than average on pay?

 

It's not even average we're talking about, it's median income. Median means that it is the midpoint, meaning half of households make more and half make less. So, in a state with one of the worst-educated populations in the country, Mr. Full believes that college-educated teachers are being overpaid because they make marginally more than half of the households in the state (the majority of which likely don't include a college graduate). Yes, it's truly an outrage that Kentucky pays teachers more than ditchdiggers and janitors.

 

Here's a question: if teaching is such a lucrative profession relative to other career choices in the bluegrass, why aren't the downtrodden beating a path to get their teaching degrees?

Actually, the statistical "mean" and "median" are both used to define the "average" of a population. When incomes or homes are the subject, median values are frequently used to represent the average to minimize the distorting effects of a small number of extremely high incomes or expensive homes.

It's not even average we're talking about, it's median income. Median means that it is the midpoint, meaning half of households make more and half make less. So, in a state with one of the worst-educated populations in the country, Mr. Full believes that college-educated teachers are being overpaid because they make marginally more than half of the households in the state (the majority of which likely don't include a college graduate). Yes, it's truly an outrage that Kentucky pays teachers more than ditchdiggers and janitors.

 

Here's a question: if teaching is such a lucrative profession relative to other career choices in the bluegrass, why aren't the downtrodden beating a path to get their teaching degrees?

Is teaching not one of the most common professions in the Commonwealth of Kentucky? Are Kentucky's colleges of education having difficulty attracting students?

I am in here in my classroom, just taking a break before I get started again on lesson plans and making sure that I have everything ready for the lessons of the week. Man I am glad that I am off on Sunday!

 

Can't you do this from your computer at home? And if not, why?

I live the real world every day. Not one teacher has posted anything on here, that I didn't know. I really wish I had become a teacher to coach:thumb:

 

You don't have to be a teacher to coach.

 

And for many teachers, the workload has become so great that they no longer coach because they don't have the time.

 

Many school districts, I am sure around whereever you live, are desparately needing good coaches. I encourage you to apply.

Went with my daughter to watch her play in a golf tournament.

 

The mother's of one of the girls in her threesome is a teacher. She was grading papers as they drove around the golf course. Would stop to watch her daughter hit, then back to grading papers while the others hit.

 

I thought of BGP and this thread as I watched her grading papers.

Last thought. I want to send a huge thank you to the Special Needs teachers. These people are amazing. They are underpaid. Thank you for everything you do.:thumb:

 

AMEN!

 

I would add in the teachers who teach in an alternative classroom setting.:thumb:

 

Nothing like being cussed out by a 12-year old to make you realize how blessed you are to be a teacher.