Yes, you read the thread title correctly. Kentucky teachers are overpaid and I am tired of constantly hearing otherwise. The teachers in Ohio and Indiana are even more overpaid than those of Kentucky.

 

Before attacking me and making the argument that teachers are the most important people in the world, please take time to consider the following statistics:

 

Average teacher salaries in 2002-03 (state rank)

Ohio - $45,515 (15)

Indiana - $44,966 (17)

Kentucky - $38,486 (37)

 

Median household income (state rank)

Ohio – $44,961 (27)

Indiana – $43,735 (32)

Kentucky – $37,566 (45)

 

The point that I am making is that Kentucky's average household family income lags behind most of the country. Compared to other professions, Kentucky's teachers are doing very well. If Kentucky's teachers are underpaid, then what about Kentucky's engineers, computer programmers, and taxi drivers?

 

If Kentucky's average household income ranks 45th in the country, how will increasing the tax burden on its citizens improve their plight? Kentucky's focus needs to be on creating a more business-friendly climate, which will result in higher salaries across the board, including those earned by teachers.

 

The bottom line is that Kentucky is a poor state with low salaries and cannot currently afford a top-tier educational system. Kentucky's spending on teacher salaries is already out pacing other professions in the state and there is no justification for claiming that teachers should be paid as much as their counterparts north of the Ohio River.

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:lol: Thanks for that insight.

You may be right. I know from experience I would not spend thousands of dollars for a degree and four to six years to get it and then put up with what they have to. I have four in the family that do , and beleive me ,they can have it.

There are two sides to your argument, meaning you are right and wrong!

 

1) The pay is fairly comparable to the average income of the state, which implies the pay isn't bad.

 

2) Unless pay is increased, you likely won't see a large number of people wanting to get into the field. Limiting the field, especially professionally, will keep the education rankings low.

You may be right. I know from experience I would not spend thousands of dollars for a degree and four to six years to get it and then put up with what they have to. I have four in the family that do , and beleive me ,they can have it.

I am not denigrating the value of teachers to society and I know that teachers who do a great job do so by overcoming a lot of hurdles. All I am saying is that, relatively speaking, Kentucky's teacher salaries stack up better against other states than the salaries of most other Kentuckians do - yet we do not constantly hear about how underpaid everybody else is.

There are two sides to your argument, meaning you are right and wrong!

 

1) The pay is fairly comparable to the average income of the state, which implies the pay isn't bad.

Actually, the average income for individual teachers is higher than the average household incomes for all Kentuckians. This means that an average family having two teachers would make more than double the average household income of the average Kentucky family. (I could have used per capita income instead of household income, but the relative rankings are roughly the same.)

 

2) Unless pay is increased, you likely won't see a large number of people wanting to get into the field. Limiting the field, especially professionally, will keep the education rankings low.

The number of students enrolled in Kentucky's colleges of education can be easily tracked I do not believe that they are experiencing a shortfall of students. That only reinforces the fact that Kentucky's teachers are paid sufficiently high salaries (on average).

Actually, the average income for individual teachers is higher than the average household incomes for all Kentuckians. This means that an average family having two teachers would make more than double the average household income of the average Kentucky family. (I could have used per capita income instead of household income, but the relative rankings are roughly the same.).

I should have said that an average Kentucky family containing two teachers would earn nearly (not more than) double the average household income.

So you make the claim that KY's teachers are overpaid, then you show that the neighboring states (which many KY teachers go to) pay more. You also fail to take into account that teachers are required by law to get a masters degree. In any other field a Master's usually means a big raise. In KY is just means that you get to keep your job and maybe get a small pay increase. To get a masters may cause a teacher to go tens of thousands in debt and further increase their cost of living.

So you make the claim that KY's teachers are overpaid, then you show that the neighboring states (which many KY teachers go to) pay more.

That is correct - but you seem to have missed the point that most people who work in Kentucky would earn more money doing the same type of work. Teacher salaries do not lag as much as most other salaries do.

You also fail to take into account that teachers are required by law to get a masters degree. In any other field a Master's usually means a big raise. In KY is just means that you get to keep your job and maybe get a small pay increase. To get a masters may cause a teacher to go tens of thousands in debt and further increase their cost of living.

I did not fail to take this into account. Do Ohio and Indiana not have similar requirements of their teachers? If so, then how is this fact relevant to the point that I have made?

 

Does a masters degree automatically make one person a better teacher than another? If not, maybe the requirement should be eliminated. Maybe salaries should be tied to performance rather than seniority and paper credentials. If you are (were?) a typical college student, you probably had at least one professor with tenure and a PhD who was a terrible teacher. How many master level classes are taught by professors who have little or no pre-college classroom experience?

 

I really do not understand why an elementary student should be required to earn a Masters degree to retain his or her job. Relieving young teachers of this obligation and providing more teacher workshops and in-school mentoring would relieve young teachers of a large financial burden and let them spend more time honing their classroom skills.

Thats a joke right? You don't base how overpaid a teacher is based on the median income, you base it on what they make compared to other people in the same profession.

I should have said that an average Kentucky family containing two teachers would earn nearly (not more than) double the average household income.

 

I understood your post , just saying it ain't worth it to me. There are teachers that are on cruise control , but if they are doing what they are supposed to do it takes 10 - 12 hours per day. I don't think we will see a change anytime soon. Programs cost money and everybody has there own agenda for the use of state funds. If we try to cut programs , no matter where , somebody is going to complain. Our state simply over budgets every year. So does our government.Thats why we owe China two hundred million dollars, and five other foreign countries that much more. It's not that difficult to fix , we either cut spending (programs) or find a new source for revenue.

I should have said that an average Kentucky family containing two teachers would earn nearly (not more than) double the average household income.

 

Do you see that as a problem?

 

I'm trying to figure out if you think that teachers should be paid the Median income of the state or they should be paid more than median.

 

I for one think that you can't value it based on median income but based on what do comparable education qualifications make in income and do the two compare? In other words a Walmart Manager might make the median income or a teacher level salary but have they got the same training/education qualifications?

 

 

(BTW, your second site linked does not have any backups citing their sources. At least that is what it says at the top of the page.)

Do you see that as a problem?

No, my response was to clarify that my original post contained ranks for Kentucky teacher salaries and median household incomes, which are not directly comparable. The reason for posting the median household income stats was to provide state rankings for a period roughly the same as the first set of stats.

 

I'm trying to figure out if you think that teachers should be paid the Median income of the state or they should be paid more than median.

Teachers should be paid at the rate necessary to attract and retain good teachers. I really do not care whether that salary is above or below the median state income (although it will obviously be well above the median) and I do not believe that it matters whether the salaries are less than, more than, or equal to those of the surrounding states.

 

I for one think that you can't value it based on median income but based on what do comparable education qualifications make in income and do the two compare? In other words a Walmart Manager might make the median income or a teacher level salary but have they got the same training/education qualifications?

A PhD in nuclear physics would not be relevant to whether a Wal-Mart manager should command a higher salary and I feel the same way about teachers. An excellent classroom teacher deserves a higher salary than a mediocre classroom teacher, regardless of the degrees and other paper credentials of the second teacher.

 

(BTW, your second site linked does not have any backups citing their sources. At least that is what it says at the top of the page.)

If you are referring to the household income numbers, the data are referenced by a footnote to Three-Year-Average Median Household Income by State: 2003-2005 (US Census)

Teachers are all college grads, many with masters.

 

Do you think the same can be said of the rest of the Kentucky work force? Makes the argument a little silly, doesn't it.

 

Compare their rates with their matriculated peers. They are not over paid.