Does the fact that Kentucky ranks so low in both high school and college graduates suggest to you that elementary and secondary teachers are underpaid?

The fact that their pay ranks around the bottom quarter of the nation perhaps suggests another correlation.

Then my comment does not apply to you. However, I think many people would agree with me that more teachers complain about their salaries than any other profession. So many news articles begin with the premise that teachers are underpaid, I think that it is time for somebody to challenge them to prove it. Are you underpaid?

 

And teacher's write these articles?

 

As to your question, am I underpaid? Honestly, I have never considered it. I can afford my house, my 13 year old car and can go visit the folks in Colorado once a year. I do the job because I love it, not because of the pay. For those teachers that question the pay, I certainly don't begrudge them their question.

 

Here is the problem...in the 12 years that I have been teaching, I have seen the number of certified teacher's dwindle. Why is that? A few years ago, we had to go through a special KDE program to obtain a teacher from Spain to be able to offer Spanish at our school. We have hired teachers at the last minute for the past three years....emergency certified.

 

What are we going to do when we can't get anyone? Let's not even question quality.

And for the record, I know plenty of auctioneers who do better financially than teachers, and they don't have a college degree. There are always going to be exceptions, but the aggregate shows that teachers make less than most other college graduates and that college graduates make more than non-college graduates.

I suspect that college graduates in Ohio and Indiana might also command higher salaries than other employees. That is an amazing statistic that you have uncovered!:lol:

I suspect that college graduates in Ohio and Indiana might also command higher salaries than other employees. That is an amazing statistic that you have uncovered!:lol:

Don't really get your point here- of course they do, which is why teachers in those states also make more than the median household income.

Could be either.

 

So do teachers. In addition to being required to obtain their master's degree, they have to have 32 hours of professional development every year (used to be 45 before this year). These hours are spent in seminars and trainings designed to improve classroom management skills, instruction and curriculum development.

Now I don't know that I would say teachers are overpaid but I certainly don't think that they are grossly underpaid as many (particularly the union leaders) would have you believe.

 

I may get villified for this, but I do think that teachers are paid just about right. They get oodles and oodles of down time, barely working over a half a year. I wish I had that. If you took there pay and divided it hourly for 8 months, it would be pretty darned high.

Does the fact that Kentucky ranks so low in both high school and college graduates suggest to you that elementary and secondary teachers are underpaid?

 

Assuming the quantity of teachers needed is met with fully qualified teachers in a competitive market we could begin to judge their pay by their product, but as TB&G elaborates in the quote below, we aren't even able to fill all positions, let alone with quality candidates.

 

Here is the problem...in the 12 years that I have been teaching, I have seen the number of certified teacher's dwindle. Why is that? A few years ago, we had to go through a special KDE program to obtain a teacher from Spain to be able to offer Spanish at our school. We have hired teachers at the last minute for the past three years....emergency certified.

 

What are we going to do when we can't get anyone? Let's not even question quality.

I may get villified for this, but I do think that teachers are paid just about right. They get oodles and oodles of down time, barely working over a half a year. I wish I had that. If you took there pay and divided it hourly for 8 months, it would be pretty darned high.

 

I am not going to villify you, but I am going to tell you that you don't know what you are talking about if you think that teacher's "barely work half a year".

And teacher's write these articles?

 

As to your question, am I underpaid? Honestly, I have never considered it. I can afford my house, my 13 year old car and can go visit the folks in Colorado once a year. I do the job because I love it, not because of the pay. For those teachers that question the pay, I certainly don't begrudge them their question.

 

Here is the problem...in the 12 years that I have been teaching, I have seen the number of certified teacher's dwindle. Why is that? A few years ago, we had to go through a special KDE program to obtain a teacher from Spain to be able to offer Spanish at our school. We have hired teachers at the last minute for the past three years....emergency certified.

 

What are we going to do when we can't get anyone? Let's not even question quality.

I am 100% in favor of rewarding outstanding teachers with higher salaries and I also strongly favor offering higher starting salaries to teachers in hard to fill specialties. It is ridiculous that teachers' pay is not tied to performance and scarcity, IMO.

 

Johnson County Middle School's academic team coach is one of the top Language Arts teachers in the state. Her academic teams have won seven state titles, which is more than any other middle school in the state. I am sure that her principal would like the flexibility to pay her half of what she is worth to the community.

 

My guess is that those teachers who do "whine" about being underpaid are often those who should be doing something else with their lives. In the many hours that I have been around the academic coach that I mentioned above, I never once heard her complain about teacher salary levels, nor did I hear any of the assistant coaches complain. Yet, I would often see her at athletic events supporting her students while grading a thick stack of creative writing assignments.

 

Nobody admires the hardworking teachers in our society any more than me and nobody would like to separate them from the few deadbeats of the profession any more than I would.

RP, you know I love you, bro, but you're failing to take into account how much work is done "off the clock" by teachers.

I am not going to villify you, but I am going to tell you that you don't know what you are talking about if you think that teacher's "barely work half a year".

 

:thumb: They're in school 9-10 months a year and they have a ton work outside of school that they must do as well.

I am 100% in favor of rewarding outstanding teachers with higher salaries and I also strongly favor offering higher starting salaries to teachers in hard to fill specialties. It is ridiculous that teachers' pay is not tied to performance and scarcity, IMO.

 

Johnson County Middle School's academic team coach is one of the top Language Arts teachers in the state. Her academic teams have won seven state titles, which is more than any other middle school in the state. I am sure that her principal would like the flexibility to pay her half of what she is worth to the community.

 

My guess is that those teachers who do "whine" about being underpaid are often those who should be doing something else with their lives. In the many hours that I have been around the academic coach that I mentioned above, I never once heard her complain about teacher salary levels, nor did I hear any of the assistant coaches complain. Yet, I would often see her at athletic events supporting her students while grading a thick stack of creative writing assignments.

 

Nobody admires the hardworking teachers in our society any more than me and nobody would like to separate them from the few deadbeats of the profession any more than I would.

 

Again - who writes the articles that you spoke about?

 

While I have NO doubt that the teacher you speak of is an outstanding teacher, being an excellent academic team coach does not necessarily qualify someone as an excellent teacher.

Again - who writes the articles that you spoke about?

 

While I have NO doubt that the teacher you speak of is an outstanding teacher, being an excellent academic team coach does not necessarily qualify someone as an excellent teacher.

Articles are obviously written by journalists, but often contain quotes from teacher, administrators, and NEA representatives. You really do not want me to post a long list of links making matter-of-fact references to teachers being underpaid, do you?

 

As for your second point, I agree with you, although there is no doubt in the case of the academic coach that I cited that she is also one of the top English teachers in the state. She has produced many outstanding writers and often teaches workshops on portfolios and other topics to her peers in Kentucky and surrounding states.

 

(While much of academic competition involves rote memorization, the composition and future problem solving portions of the competitions require excellent writing skills. These are the areas that Johnson County's teams and individuals consistently excel.)

Articles are obviously written by journalists, but often contain quotes from teacher, administrators, and NEA representatives. You really do not want me to post a long list of links making matter-of-fact references to teachers being underpaid, do you?

 

As for your second point, I agree with you, although there is no doubt in the case of the academic coach that I cited that she is also one of the top English teachers in the state. She has produced many outstanding writers and often teaches workshops on portfolios and other topics to her peers in Kentucky and surrounding states.

 

(While much of academic competition involves rote memorization, the composition and future problem solving portions of the competitions require excellent writing skills. These are the areas that Johnson County's teams and individuals consistently excel.)

 

My point exactly...journalists write the articles, not teachers.

 

I bring up the academic team question because I know of someone that used to be on and had a great team...but he cared very little about the students in his classes that were not on the academic team.

RP, you know I love you, bro, but you're failing to take into account how much work is done "off the clock" by teachers.

 

Are teachers the only people that work off of the clock?