October 3, 200718 yr I didn't know he was given the GM title. I thought that was a Brown. I'd look there first when figuring out why this franchise has been where it has been and where it is now. I don't think Vince Lombardi would have had any more success in Cincinnati. No doubt that MB has "final say" but I'm guessing that's more to do with money and , now, character.
October 3, 200718 yr No doubt that MB has "final say" but I'm guessing that's more to do with money and , now, character. Does anyone have the franchise record under Mikey boy
October 3, 200718 yr Signing people on your own team when you aren't that good gets you to still be not that good. For evidence of that look at the fact that they are about .500 w/ Marvin as a coach. They wanted Sapp, but somehow he wasn't signed. Marvin might have changed his mind, but I'm guessing Browm penny pinched. Brown changed his ways a little bit, but that's b/c the fans quit coming to the game and filed a law suit against him. Now that the seats are full he hasn't done anything. There big signing this year was E. Hartwell. When you pick in the top 8 in every draft for 15 years you eventually have to get some of the draft picks right. If they didn't get Carson Palmer they would still be teriible instead of just average. All of the good franchises spend money. The Bengals do not. Signing players who are some of the tops players in the league is a good thing to do, and all those players I mentioned are pretty much in the top 5 in their position that we have signed back. Yeah we dont spend much money going out and getting players from other teams, but Mike Brown has started spending on keeping some of the best players in the NFL on this team. I mean he realizes that you got to build around Palmer, and he has paid to keep this offense intact. Now he left it up to the Defensive guru in Marvin to be able to build a defense with a couple of veterans and through the draft. Yet Marvin has shown that his drafting ability maybe is not that good, because even though most of our drafts have been on defense since Marvin has been here. Our defense still keeps getting worse... Also as for the thing all good franchises spend money is not exactly true. I mean for years the Patriots would just let their best players go, and bring in average players and yet they were still always one of the top 3 teams in the league year in and year out, and that is because they have built a team through the draft. This is the first year that they really actually went out and spent money. Last year superbowl champs the Colts, were pretty much a team that just was built through the draft and didn't go out and sign really any big names, and they have been one of the top teams year in and year out. The steelers when they one the super bowl had a team that was built through the draft..The whole thing about having to spend alot of money in free agency to be good is not true at all. It all starts with the draft, and Marvin has failed at that since he has been here....
October 3, 200718 yr Just curious, but what has he done to lead you to believe he's a good coach??? I don't know...maybe turning a franchise that had been the laughing stock of the NFL into a real factor. But, heck, I reckon anybody could do that. Personnel decisions are what is killing Cincinnati, not coaching. Since he's been there, they've had, at best, mediocre players on defense across the board. You're going to struggle in the NFL when your D-line can't consistently rush the passer or stop the run...and that's what he's had since he's been there. Same with LB's and DB's...they've had a few above average players, but not enough to make much of a difference...and not that it matters...if your D-line gives you nothing, then you can have an all-pro back seven and your defense will still probably struggle. Unfortunately, the back seven in Cincy has been comparable to the front four.
October 3, 200718 yr I don't know...maybe turning a franchise that had been the laughing stock of the NFL into a real factor. But, heck, I reckon anybody could do that. Personnel decisions are what is killing Cincinnati, not coaching. Since he's been there, they've had, at best, mediocre players on defense across the board. You're going to struggle in the NFL when your D-line can't consistently rush the passer or stop the run...and that's what he's had since he's been there. Same with LB's and DB's...they've had a few above average players, but not enough to make much of a difference...and not that it matters...if your D-line gives you nothing, then you can have an all-pro back seven and your defense will still probably struggle. Unfortunately, the back seven in Cincy has been comparable to the front four. He was handed Chad, TJ, Rudi, Levi, Willie, Braham and J. Johnson on offense and had the 1st pick with Carson as a welcome present. Improving around that core simply has not happened...
October 3, 200718 yr He was handed Chad, TJ, Rudi, Levi, Willie, Braham and J. Johnson on offense and had the 1st pick with Carson as a welcome present. Improving around that core simply has not happened... And who is responsible for that?
October 3, 200718 yr He was handed Chad, TJ, Rudi, Levi, Willie, Braham and J. Johnson on offense and had the 1st pick with Carson as a welcome present. Improving around that core simply has not happened... I totally agree w/ you, but don't you think if they would spend money on a bigger and better scouting department and possibly a real GM they would have better drafts and a lot better of a defense?
October 3, 200718 yr I totally agree w/ you, but don't you think if they would spend money on a bigger and better scouting department and possibly a real GM they would have better drafts and a lot better of a defense? It certainly wouldn't hurt...
October 4, 200718 yr I'll agree with everything other than the last line. My guess is that they're pretty close to the cap this year so he's spending money. The other teams who have played the cap game may be at the limit but they're not actually paying all of that money this year. Some of it is from signing bonuses that were stretched out over a period of time that was longer than the player actually played. So , if the cap is $60M(guess on my part), they may show they're at $60M but its not for the players on the field. So, I don't think Mike is pocketing any money unless he's not at or near the cap. The other franchises wouldn't pay for Geathers and Smith. They would have seen....Bye By.
October 4, 200718 yr The other franchises wouldn't pay for Geathers and Smith. They would have seen....Bye By. I think teams would have paid for Geathers, he is young and very athletic. However I dont think most teams would have franchised Smith. He is definitely not worth the money we are paying him...
October 8, 200718 yr It certainly wouldn't hurt... From Lance's blog: From emailer Mike H. Colts Football Department: Chris Polian, Vice President of Football Operations Steve Champlin, Director of Football Administration Tom Telesco, Director of Player Personnel Dom Anile, Sr. Consultant to Player Personnel Clyde Powers, Director of Pro Player Personnel David Caldwell, Western Regional Scout Todd Vasvari, Eastern Regional Scout Bob Ferguson, Special Asst. to the Dir. of Player Personnel John Becker, Area Scout Ryan Cavanaugh, Area Scout Mark Ellenz, Area Scout Bob Guarini, Area Scout Byron Lusby, Area Scout Matt Terpening, Area Scout Kevin Rogers, Pro Scout J. W. Jordan, Salary Cap/Personnel Analyst Stefani Paul, Player Development Administrator Jamie Moore, Scouting Assistant Jon Shaw, Scouting Assistant Debbie Finn, Asst. to the Director of Player Personnel Bengals Football Department: Pete Brown Senior Vice President - Player Personnel Paul Brown Vice President - Player Personnel Jim Lippincott Director of Football Operations Duke Tobin Director of Player Personnel Greg Seamon Scout Earl Biederman John Cooper Bill Tobin Scouting Consultants Debbie LaRocco Personnel Assistant
October 9, 200718 yr From Lance's blog: From emailer Mike H. Colts Football Department: Chris Polian, Vice President of Football Operations Steve Champlin, Director of Football Administration Tom Telesco, Director of Player Personnel Dom Anile, Sr. Consultant to Player Personnel Clyde Powers, Director of Pro Player Personnel David Caldwell, Western Regional Scout Todd Vasvari, Eastern Regional Scout Bob Ferguson, Special Asst. to the Dir. of Player Personnel John Becker, Area Scout Ryan Cavanaugh, Area Scout Mark Ellenz, Area Scout Bob Guarini, Area Scout Byron Lusby, Area Scout Matt Terpening, Area Scout Kevin Rogers, Pro Scout J. W. Jordan, Salary Cap/Personnel Analyst Stefani Paul, Player Development Administrator Jamie Moore, Scouting Assistant Jon Shaw, Scouting Assistant Debbie Finn, Asst. to the Director of Player Personnel Bengals Football Department: Pete Brown Senior Vice President - Player Personnel Paul Brown Vice President - Player Personnel Jim Lippincott Director of Football Operations Duke Tobin Director of Player Personnel Greg Seamon Scout Earl Biederman John Cooper Bill Tobin Scouting Consultants Debbie LaRocco Personnel Assistant Amazing, Mike Brown threatens to move the Bengals unless he gets the taxpayers to use their money to finance a stadium. Now, where has Brown does his part to use his money to finance a winning team? The comparison of scouting departments just verifies that. Not paying players is one thing, but you better have the people that can find replacements. Seems to work nice for teams like the Steelers.
October 10, 200718 yr He was handed Chad, TJ, Rudi, Levi, Willie, Braham and J. Johnson on offense and had the 1st pick with Carson as a welcome present. Improving around that core simply has not happened... Jeremy Johnson and Eric Steinback were taken same year as Carson so he improved there. He also made a good decision not to throw Carson into the fire which was not a popular decision at the time. He made another good decision to start Carson the next year, which was also not the most popular decision at the time as Kitna was coming off a good year. I'm not convinced he's a good coach but he has made some nice moves along with his mistakes. Much of the Bengals problems this year result from injuries (not his control) and the continuing effect of the off field problems (certainly is under his control and is long past the time that he should have dealt with it).
October 10, 200718 yr Jeremy Johnson and Eric Steinback were taken same year as Carson so he improved there. He also made a good decision not to throw Carson into the fire which was not a popular decision at the time. He made another good decision to start Carson the next year, which was also not the most popular decision at the time as Kitna was coming off a good year. I'm not convinced he's a good coach but he has made some nice moves along with his mistakes. Much of the Bengals problems this year result from injuries (not his control) and the continuing effect of the off field problems (certainly is under his control and is long past the time that he should have dealt with it). I don't buy the injury excuse. It's something every team has to battle, and the great franchises don't allow it to slow them down. Where is the depth and consistency? When a player gets hurt, why isn't the next man in ready to perform? Word is out that Marvin is asking for a GM, and if true maybe that helps solve the problem. It couldn't hurt IMO...
October 10, 200718 yr I don't buy the injury excuse. It's something every team has to battle, and the great franchises don't allow it to slow them down. Where is the depth and consistency? When a player gets hurt, why isn't the next man in ready to perform? Word is out that Marvin is asking for a GM, and if true maybe that helps solve the problem. It couldn't hurt IMO... I haven't read thru this whole thread, so I'm not sure I understand your comment. Why does Marvin want a GM? Is Marvin the one making all the player moves now, and if so, does asking for a GM admitting that he's not a very good evaluator of talent?
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