2 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

I'm not saying young players can't be influenced by older ones, but role models? I don't know. That seems like a home issue to me. 

I think it is both but the only way it gets solved is at home (or within the football program) so we essentially agree. 

What I'm about to post likely isn't going to be popular, but here it goes.

We want kids to play with fire, and emotion. We describe the game using terms related to war, terms like "battlefield", and ask them to be "warriors" and to not let the other guy "push you around", or "beat you up". We encourage (and sometimes require them) to train year round, to make "sacrifices" to be the best there is. We ask them to give up other sports, family vacations, and compete daily from mid July until mid November, and have them miss out on other things that could give them self worth and value. We elevate the game above almost everything else. Then, on Friday night they compete, and all they've battled, fought, lived and died for comes up for naught, and all the things we've implored them not to let happen, happen. And then they react. And we them blame them for reacting in a negative way. With all the pressure to succeed, to play at the next level, to be a winner at all costs, we've slowly taken the fun out of the sport. To me it's no surprise when things like fights happen. They are just an extension of the emotion that we require of them, and the pressure we put on them for literally all but a few weeks of the year.

As a coach, I've been guilty of all the things I've mentioned above. And it's part of the reason, I'm no longer coaching football. Maybe this is just my midlife crisis, but I think we all have to do a better job of making the sport more about fun. Too many parents and coaches are putting way too much weight on Friday nights, and I think that manifests itself in things like fights, especially when teams are struggling with failure.

3 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

What I'm about to post likely isn't going to be popular, but here it goes.

We want kids to play with fire, and emotion. We describe the game using terms related to war, terms like "battlefield", and ask them to be "warriors" and to not let the other guy "push you around", or "beat you up". We encourage (and sometimes require them) to train year round, to make "sacrifices" to be the best there is. We ask them to give up other sports, family vacations, and compete daily from mid July until mid November, and have them miss out on other things that could give them self worth and value. We elevate the game above almost everything else. Then, on Friday night they compete, and all they've battled, fought, lived and died for comes up for naught, and all the things we've implored them not to let happen, happen. And then they react. And we them blame them for reacting in a negative way. With all the pressure to succeed, to play at the next level, to be a winner at all costs, we've slowly taken the fun out of the sport. To me it's no surprise when things like fights happen. They are just an extension of the emotion that we require of them, and the pressure we put on them for literally all but a few weeks of the year.

Excellent post. 

6 minutes ago, theguru said:

I think it is both but the only way it gets solved is at home (or within the football program) so we essentially agree. 

When it comes to what is happening with a football team, I think leadership on the team may be more important than at home. Coaches need to set a standard, stand by it and make their standards very clear to the players. They need the players who are the team leaders to echo those standards.

14 hours ago, Purple88 said:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/baltimore-high-school-football-fight-leads-teams-suspensions-state-playoffs
 

The above article is just one example in Maryland, but here in Kentucky this week we have multiple games that are being forfeited due to fighting at games. The Western Hills video is a really bad look of their own teammates fighting and causing them to cancel their season now. Wow!

In the above article, the teams fighting are heated rivals who have played 133 times before. The State of Maryland HS Board are suspending both teams from the playoffs. 
So my point/question is: 

1.  Is this type fighting a new trend?  There have always been scuffles and smaller fiat-a-cuffs.

2.  Is this brought on largely by the everyday reality that everyone has a phone and when ANY fight breaks out its videoed and punished?

3.  What can and/or what should be done about this?

I don’t see this going away. Is it a big deal or “just part of the game”?

I for one am disturbed by the growing trend of players suspensions and teams forfeiting games. 
 

What say you?

It's a big deal and a sad commentary on where we are in society. Officiated football 25 years and taught and coached other sports 1970-2011. It has all changed dramatically. I could go about 5 pages with my ideas about why, when, and how. It is really sad. Was at a game in Myrtle Beach SC a few years ago. Had to empty pockets and go through metal detectors like TSA. Told the officer I never had been through that at a HS game....he laughed and said they did that at MIDDLE SCHOOL games too! Wow.

4 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

A few things come to mind on this important topic.

1. Is it a lack of ability to deal with disappointment or frustration at both individual level and team level. 

2. Team or group altercations seem to be increasing.  Lack of discipline by other when there is a smaller or 1 on 1 altercation.  This seems at both college and high school level. 

3. With newer, younger officials who may not be "seasoned" - are they not tapping down the emotions and issues before they flare up. 

Individual altercations in contact sports have been and will always be part of the landscape.  When O-line and D-line bang on each other for two hours usually with the same person in the 1 on 1 match-ups, things are going to flare here and there. 

I mention the officials above because they can make a difference.  Coming from hockey environment,  I would watch officials and linesmen will put themselves directly between two players who may be about to square off.  This was all levels and higher youth ages.  Good hockey officials aggressively split up piles around covered pucks at the goal or watch for retaliation after a hard check. 

Its not the officials formal role to keep the powder keg from blowing up.  But, they can help if they watch for it and sense it and see it building and work it each play.  New officials definitely would not be good at this coming out of the gate.  I do not want to seem to be blaming the officials.  Its just a something that may be in the mix. 

 

When I instructed officials I always emphasized our job was to keep the game SAFE and FAIR. I had games where late in the game I would work my way toward each bench and tell head coaches to be VERY aware during the post game handshake line(do it before the game when tensions are less!). We always talked to players, especially captains, about keeping everything under control on the field. Preventive officiating is the real key!

12 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

And on Saturday.

And, unfortunately, on Thursday nights.

3 hours ago, BlueRaider said:

To me this is a coach issue. The coaches are the ones who set the culture. Teams who are preached at to handle adversity the right way avoid getting into brawls. Sure you might have one slip up every once in a while with a small individual scuffle, but if it is a team-wide issue that has a significant impact on the next game being played that that is indicative of a deeper rooted culture problem. Coaches have to teach their players how to handle adversity together as a team. This is almost more important then a lot of the x's and o's IMO. 

I was about to say the same thing.  I remember there being some issues at Newport last season.  I attended one of their games this year and came away very impressed with the team.  I don't say this to blame the coaches from last year, but the new coaches have come in and have established a different culture.  I guess what I'm saying is that it can be controlled.  

Just my opinion, but if you add a couple bad apples (sometimes they may be studs) to a core of role players...more often then not the role players will follow the bad apples. 

 

Many think that sportsmanship is taught by the coach (to an extent this is true) but often it's not taught at home. 

On 11/2/2022 at 9:52 PM, Tigerpride94 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/michigan-state-suspends-four-additional-players-amid-investigation-into-tunnel-scuffle-after-michigan-game/

Happens at college level as well.

Yes it does!  At the high school level, it was not tolerated by our coach.  It was completely unacceptable in practice and certainly on the field.  At college, there was a fight very often during practice and there was never any consequences for it.  

I have been around football for 30 years. There have always been fights between teammates and teams. Everyone having a phone and filming it is the issue. No cell phones, and no social media in the past. So how would know if another team had a fight after practice. It is the world we live in now, but coaches are put in a tough spot. It used to be acceptable that if two players got in a fight, it was broken up and the kids were punished. End of story, now everyone sees the video, gets on social media and bashes the coach, the kids, the school and program.....then someone out there agrees and boom we have an issue. Lots of times these people expressing there opinions about the kids, coaches, and administrators have no ties to the school and/or no background to what happened other than they see the video and feel like it is there duty to express their views. Always easy from the cheap seats. 

10 minutes ago, GoodOleBoy said:

I have been around football for 30 years. There have always been fights between teammates and teams. Everyone having a phone and filming it is the issue. No cell phones, and no social media in the past. So how would know if another team had a fight after practice. It is the world we live in now, but coaches are put in a tough spot. It used to be acceptable that if two players got in a fight, it was broken up and the kids were punished. End of story, now everyone sees the video, gets on social media and bashes the coach, the kids, the school and program.....then someone out there agrees and boom we have an issue. Lots of times these people expressing there opinions about the kids, coaches, and administrators have no ties to the school and/or no background to what happened other than they see the video and feel like it is there duty to express their views. Always easy from the cheap seats. 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything in your post but another way of looking at it is this has been an issue for decades and nothing is changing or improving and that is an indictment of the coaches/adults involved. 

I agree that this is a violent sport, and we expect players to play with raw emotion and combat opponents 1 on 1. It is hard to turn that fire off sometimes.

IMO, the problem is a societal problem, not coaching, community or program culture.

There used to be respect in the dogfight. At the end of a fight you could shake hands and turn around having more respect for standing up for yourself and doing your best on every play, likewise for your opponent. Now when there is a disagreement or conflict with any kind of opposition, the goal is to humiliate, belittle or claim an alternate narrative of how things really are. There is an impulse to make excuses, place blame and lash out in loss. There is the impulse to brag, put down and goad opponents in victory.

Tell me who else among us teaches grace in victory and grace in defeat other than our coaches. Where else is it learned and, more importantly, reinforced outside of sport in today's world?

Also, as an aside, Social media makes it worse because interactions are no longer limited to between the whistles, but in the week leading to the game and the ride home after.

When I put this thread out here, I really didn't know what to expect as it can be a volatile topic, but I do feel it's important to get opinions on it as the below 3 things remain consistent for me:

1.  This have been part of the game since it was invented.

2.  This isn't going away.

3.  Cell phones and Social Media amplify the issue.

But the part about is this trending up and will more players be suspended and will more teams be required to forfeit games in greater or far greater numbers seems still to be determined.

I wish I had added poll questions for this to see how that would have turned out.

 

I mean let's be real, those teams don't have to forfeit the games. Its just a convenient excuse to not drive somewhere and get running clocked. And its a convenient excuse to end the season right then and there.