3 hours ago, theguru said:

I agree and there is a reason we push the F35 on our partners and don't share the F22 with anyone. 

Over the years, Israel, Japan, and Australia had repeatedly asked America about potential purchases of the F-22 Raptor, but every time they were shot down and current law explicitly forbids the sale of F-22 Raptors to foreign nations. (edited for BGP).

Unlike the vast majority of U.S. military aircraft, the F-22 was never designed to be exported. As such, it was packed with classified technology and produced through advanced production methodologies that the United States would rather keep close to the chest. To date, the U.S remains the leader in stealth aviation technologies the world over.

https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/why-america-never-sold-the-f-22-raptor-to-foreign-countries/

I read a story about a F22 flying up under two Iranian fighters to check out their armament. They had no idea he was there until he popped up beside them and told them to go home.

4 hours ago, John Anthony said:

Sounds like multiple Russian fighter jets have been shot down today.  All those years of wondering how the US would fare against Russian fighter jets appears to have been answered.  I hope NATO considers sending fighter jets to Ukraine for them to use.

Russia and China both have bragged about and shown off their newest fighters, their F22 answers. The only problem is about all they have done so far is build a few demonstrators or test versions. Neither air force appears to be as advanced as they try to proclaim. Both rely on using huge numbers and incurring huge losses to achieve objectives. 

Their anti-air defense systems are very strong. However when it come to air to air combat, as @TheDeuce said, "They don't want that smoke!"

12 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Russia and China both have bragged about and shown off their newest fighters, their F22 answers. The only problem is about all they have done so far is build a few demonstrators or test versions. Neither air force appears to be as advanced as they try to proclaim. Both rely on using huge numbers and incurring huge losses to achieve objectives. 

Their anti-air defense systems are very strong. However when it come to air to air combat, as @TheDeuce said, "They don't want that smoke!"

Agree.

We dominate in the air, however their ground based anti-air defense systems are very advanced and we don't want that smoke. 

Russian Helicopter getting shot down.

 

8 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Yes, that is the question. The line drawn at this time by THE WORLD is no direct troop involvement in the fighting. That includes air force and is why a no fly zone can't be enforced. Stinger missiles can be effective against helicopters but not fighter jets.

I personally feel like the lack of a no fly zone is bull crap.  You inform them ahead of time. If they don't abide by it, that's on them. 100% reactionary which is what they've said would happen if this spilled into another NATO country. 

1 minute ago, sportsfan41 said:

I personally feel like the lack of a no fly zone is bull crap.  You inform them ahead of time. If they don't abide by it, that's on them. 100% reactionary which is what they've said would happen if this spilled into another NATO country. 

Risk of WW3 goes up exponentially with the first non Ukrainian soldier or aircraft that enters the war zone.

Russia saying that Western Sanctions are "Akin to a Declaration of War."

Japan basically struck at the US due to sanctions and embargoes that the US had placed on Japan.

 

Mastercard and Visa both have shut down their cards in Russia. 

So what do we think the worst case REALISTIC scenario is here? 

4 hours ago, sportsfan41 said:

I personally feel like the lack of a no fly zone is bull crap.  You inform them ahead of time. If they don't abide by it, that's on them. 100% reactionary which is what they've said would happen if this spilled into another NATO country. 

"another"? 

Ukraine is not part of NATO. 

 

 

3 hours ago, BrosefStalin said:

So what do we think the worst case REALISTIC scenario is here? 

Massacre of citizens and the US/NATO/UN getting involved in a shooting war with Russia. I don't think that will happen, but that would trigger all of the worst case scenarios. 

Russia will not lose face in this, the only legit end of this is them getting some piece of Ukraine. Worst case without it turning into WWIII is they take over and put their own people in place to run things, thus making Ukraine a Russian puppet. Then in a year or so they do it again in another country. 

6 hours ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Massacre of citizens and the US/NATO/UN getting involved in a shooting war with Russia. I don't think that will happen, but that would trigger all of the worst case scenarios. 

Russia will not lose face in this, the only legit end of this is them getting some piece of Ukraine. Worst case without it turning into WWIII is they take over and put their own people in place to run things, thus making Ukraine a Russian puppet. Then in a year or so they do it again in another country. 

Next on the list for Russia are Moldova and Georgia. The formula is already at work. The Russians have inserted separatist battlegrounds into couple areas just like they did in Ukraine. They will leverage that into a takeover. Moldova and Georgia both just asked for expedited membership into the EU because of what is happening in Ukraine. If THE WORLD is looking to add pressure to Russia and perhaps help Ukraine they should support those two with weapons and training so they can eliminate the separatists. Try to make Russia spend military assets in those countries right now.

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18 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Risk of WW3 goes up exponentially with the first non Ukrainian soldier or aircraft that enters the war zone.

Agreed. And Russia should keep that in mind. 

14 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

"another"? 

Ukraine is not part of NATO. 

 

 

Yes, but the US is and several nations near the Ukraine are.  So yes, "another"