1 minute ago, John Anthony said:

I feel like he’s just scratching the surface on what he can do, “entering his prime,” if you will.

I agree with you, thus I'd like him as Kentucky's next coach.  Or Nate Oats, maybe.

But I'm still not taking either over Calipari at the moment.

10 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 I look at both those players and feel like they would have done just as well if not better if they had stayed at UK.

Potentially.  I have no clue what Mathews could have been at UK but probably just as good.

For Wiltjer, I bet he probably benefitted from playing in a lesser conference.

1 hour ago, MJAlltheWay24 said:

So are you putting Hagans on the bench if you're playing all three?  Granted, I didn't care a ton for Hagans but he was our PG on both of those teams. Or are just going super small and not playing the likes of PJ Washington?  

Lucky to have one or two a year?  Aren't we right now talking about two different recent teams that had 3 good shooters on them? lol

Yes but if your best shooters are sitting on the bench most of the game theirs no point having them, or playing meaningless minutes and or gets yanked for screwing up while the 5 star can screw up over and over again until he gets it right and CAL doesn’t want to take his heart away. This one and done monster has gotten out of control. If you come to KY and don’t leave in one season the players think they are failures when in all fairness most of these guys need multiple years to figure it out. EJ Montgomery is playing in BFE. Hagans and EJ would have made a world of difference on this team.

I get CALs philosophy, play the stud freshman and get them too the league so the next group waiting can show up and rinse repeat. The system has been on the downward slope since 15..... The best players are spread out all over now and it doesn’t take KY and their system to get you the 1st pick in the draft. CAL is stubborn and while ahead of the curve in  2010 has fallen way way behind it now. Can he adapt and change we will see but next seasons roster as of now has very few shooters.

3 hours ago, Tomcats1990 said:

Cal said last night the game has changed and he needs more shooters, but how much Defense do you sacrifice to get them. Why can’t shooters be defensive stoppers also. Cal has been especially hard on shooters and ran off Baker Juzang and now more then likely Allen. Imagine this years team with Hagans at Point, Baker Juzang at the 2. Allen at the 3, EJ at the 4 and Sarr at the 5. We more then likely are a lot better then 5-11. 

Big difference between Allen and Baker/Juzang.  First being that they're from the west coast and both said they wanted to go back towards the west coast, where as Allen is from Kentucky.  Also, and this isn't a knock on Allen, but they were both more athletic than he is.  I'd say his focus during the off season should be strength and agility.  

26 minutes ago, Tomcats1990 said:

Yes but if your best shooters are sitting on the bench most of the game theirs no point having them, or playing meaningless minutes and or gets yanked for screwing up while the 5 star can screw up over and over again until he gets it right and CAL doesn’t want to take his heart away. This one and done monster has gotten out of control. If you come to KY and don’t leave in one season the players think they are failures when in all fairness most of these guys need multiple years to figure it out. EJ Montgomery is playing in BFE. Hagans and EJ would have made a world of difference on this team.

You seem to keep bringing up Hagans, EJ, etc like it is Cals fault that they made dumb decisions to leave early. How is that his fault again? Those guys left, because they most likely had guys in their ears telling them, that they were better than they are and would be drafted high still.
 

I’m sure Cal would have absolutely loved to have had Hagans, and EJ back for junior seasons. Just look at the huge jump Richards made by coming back for his junior season. Players who have decided to stay, have all usually improved greatly each year they stayed. Cal can’t make the guys stay though. 

1 hour ago, Tomcats1990 said:

I’m not the coach but  I’d play all 3 together if possible if not split the minutes can’t have enough good shooters and we usually are  lucky to have 1 maybe 2 per year.

So you would have played all three together? So you would have benched both Keldon Johnson, and Hagans?

Then last year you Quickley was the SEC player of the year playing off the ball. Maxey also very good off the ball. Yet you would have wanted to force one of them to play the pg spot instead, so Juzang could get more minutes?

I get it, Juzang and Baker leaving sucked. My favorite players at UK has always been the guys who can shoot. With that said, in both their cases it made sense to have short leashes with them, because of the guys they had around them. It doesn’t mean it would have stayed like that every year if they stayed. They would eventually improve in the areas Cal wanted them to improve on too. 
 

We forget a lot of the great shooters we have had in the past who were known as just mainly shooters, before Cal. Most of them didn’t play as much early on, and they didn’t become the players we all remember until their junior or senior seasons. Yet now people are upset those guys aren’t playing more right away. Just like shooters in the past, most of them do need to be in college longer. So they get better at the other areas, so that they can truly not be a huge liability out there. 

32 minutes ago, Tomcats1990 said:

Yes but if your best shooters are sitting on the bench most of the game theirs no point having them, or playing meaningless minutes and or gets yanked for screwing up while the 5 star can screw up over and over again until he gets it right and CAL doesn’t want to take his heart away. This one and done monster has gotten out of control. If you come to KY and don’t leave in one season the players think they are failures when in all fairness most of these guys need multiple years to figure it out. EJ Montgomery is playing in BFE. Hagans and EJ would have made a world of difference on this team.

Is it Calipari's fault that players feel like if they don't make the league after one season they are a failure?  I'd think it would be all the noise outside of the program that is to blame for that.  I'd imagine Calipari would have been thrilled to have Hagans and EJ back on this team.

2 minutes ago, futurecoach said:

So you would have played all three together? So you would have benched both Keldon Johnson, and Hagans?

Then last year you Quickley was the SEC player of the year playing off the ball. Maxey also very good off the ball. Yet you would have wanted to force one of them to play the pg spot instead, so Juzang could get more minutes?

I get it, Juzang and Baker leaving sucked. My favorite players at UK has always been the guys who can shoot. With that said, in both their cases it made sense to have short leashes with them, because of the guys they had around them. It doesn’t mean it would have stayed like that every year if they stayed. They would eventually improve in the areas Cal wanted them to improve on too. 
 

We forget a lot of the great shooters we have had in the past who were known as just mainly shooters, before Cal. Most of them didn’t play as much early on, and they didn’t become the players we all remember until their junior or senior seasons. Yet now people are upset those guys aren’t playing more right away. Just like shooters in the past, most of them do need to be in college longer. So they get better at the other areas, so that they can truly not be a huge liability out there. 

Spot on.

1 hour ago, futurecoach said:

You seem to keep bringing up Hagans, EJ, etc like it is Cals fault that they made dumb decisions to leave early. How is that his fault again? Those guys left, because they most likely had guys in their ears telling them, that they were better than they are and would be drafted high still.
 

I’m sure Cal would have absolutely loved to have had Hagans, and EJ back for junior seasons. Just look at the huge jump Richards made by coming back for his junior season. Players who have decided to stay, have all usually improved greatly each year they stayed. Cal can’t make the guys stay though. 

The culture CAL has created with the One and done puts tremendous pressure on these kids to come in and go out the same year. We are the only program that encourages this and perception around our program is these guys are busts if they have to stay their sophomore and or junior year. Like I said Cal has next season too fix this mess He has created after that all bets are off. Fan Base is turning on CAL and when most do the writing is on the wall.

Guys, all the offense/sets that Cal runs is completely based on having a point guard that can break you down and get to the rim or get to the lane, obviously he doesn’t have that now thus the severe struggles in scoring and he doesn’t know what to do about it because he keeps running the same stuff that he ran for Wall/Fox etc.  

24 minutes ago, Tomcats1990 said:

The culture CAL has created with the One and done puts tremendous pressure on these kids to come in and go out the same year. We are the only program that encourages this and perception around our program is these guys are busts if they have to stay their sophomore and or junior year. Like I said Cal has next season too fix this mess He has created after that all bets are off. Fan Base is turning on CAL and when most do the writing is on the wall.

There are some elements of truth to this post. I do agree there is undue pressure, but I think it is important to note the culture is a good and bad thing. You are also grading all recruits on the same plane, which isn't fair. I don't think Calipari went into the home of Derek Willis and said if you come here and don't succeed from day one, you are a bust. I think by the success of previous recruits, the pressure organically happens. And for ever time it works against UK, I would argue it works in their favor. In Cal's tenure, only a small amount of guys were considered one and done pro prospects. I think the culture forces guys to play at a higher level and turns future pros into pros sooner than anticpated. Good examples of this are Herro, Bledsoe, and Quickley. I also think Calipari is up front with his kids in that there will be pressure to perform, whether they are ready or not. I don't necessarily believe that is a bad thing.

Jay Bilas did a tremendous bit last week on how it is fashionable to say Duke and UK are behind the times since they embrace "one and done." But a blip doesn't make a trend. The reality is since Cal's arrival, Duke and UK have been better positioned each year to win it all than any other schools. Obviously anything can happen in a single elimination tournament, so I wouldn't judge success on it. But there is a reason these two schools have more tournament wins than any other schools during this time frame.

What is the old saying, if you listen to the fans you will soon be sitting with them?

11 minutes ago, 16thBBall Fan said:

Guys, all the offense/sets that Cal runs is completely based on having a point guard that can break you down and get to the rim or get to the lane, obviously he doesn’t have that now thus the severe struggles in scoring and he doesn’t know what to do about it because he keeps running the same stuff that he ran for Wall/Fox etc.  

True. Though I am not sure how many teams really succeed these days without a PG that can somewhat break you down. That is not unique to UK.

3 hours ago, MJAlltheWay24 said:

I agree with you, thus I'd like him as Kentucky's next coach.  Or Nate Oats, maybe.

But I'm still not taking either over Calipari at the moment.

I think Cal has lost his fastball.  We’re not getting the elite kids anymore and we have kids transferring in and out left and right.

We have no identity after being a 1 and done factory.  We’re trying to find someone to play PG.

47 minutes ago, Tomcats1990 said:

The culture CAL has created with the One and done puts tremendous pressure on these kids to come in and go out the same year. We are the only program that encourages this and perception around our program is these guys are busts if they have to stay their sophomore and or junior year. Like I said Cal has next season too fix this mess He has created after that all bets are off. Fan Base is turning on CAL and when most do the writing is on the wall.

So I’m assuming you rather take back the 2010 to 2015 years then? Take back the final fours, National Title, the 2014 tournament run, which even though we came one game short. Probably was one of the most exciting tournament runs in UK history. You would rather take that all back,  because of this culture you said it created? 
 

Like it or not the guys Cal recruits, is the same guys all tho programs recruit and want. I know you mentioned OSU coach. Those are the same type of guys he would definitely also try to get, if he could get them. 
 

It is not Calipari’s fault that he has had guys who probably were not even thought to be one and done when he recruited them. That ended up playing themselves into a first round pick. It seems to me Cal is going to get blamed either way. People like to say he can’t coach guys up. Yet when he recruits guys who many don’t consider one and done, and then they perform better than expected under him like Bledsoe, Herro, Booker, Etc. He gets blamed still for a one and done culture. Then if a guy struggles his freshman year, he gets blamed for not coaching well. 
 

Cal would love to have more players stay. It is not as much the culture, as it players having other people getting in their about leaving. Cal has shown when players stay it works out well for the player and team. Terrance Jones stayed and helped win a title and improved his stock. WCS stayed until junior year and helped to almost undefeated and improved his position. Nick Richards a McDonalds All American stayed  through Junior year and became ten times better. 
 

It is honestly a shame that last years tournament didn’t happen. Last years team was a team full of guys who came back and experience. Yet since the tournament didn’t happen, people seem to forget about last years team, and how it was a team of guys who came back. Sadly guys like Hagans and EJ got bad advice from people on the outside and left. When they had a teammate that was a perfect example of what could happen if they stayed like Richards had. 
 

This year Cal definitely has not done a good job with this team. The roster he put together isn’t great, and I do think he has struggled with coaching this year. So I won’t argue with people about how he has done a poor job this season.  Just some of this other constant stuff people have complained about with past years is just crazy IMO. 
 

Ok I think that answered many of the post I have seen today. ?