That's rich. So the argument was that he was surrounded by studs because he played for a private school. Yet the public schools in the Ville have produced most of the D1 talent at the positions in question. And it's not like Brohm's WRs didn't get a look while every major program in the country was looking at the QB. I love these debates because you guys are spinning like a political campaign...

 

You're reaching for something that isn't there.

 

You're not going to sit there and tell me that Brohm wasn't surrounded by superior talent while at Trinity, are you? And, that every great high school player is a D-1 stud?

 

I'm not saying he was surrounded by studs, but his surrounding team was better than almost any other high school QB in KY.

 

Justin Haddix was a great high school QB for Breathitt County, but he didn't get any serious looks from D-1 either. That doesn't make him any less great at the high school level. How big of a difference was there in McBroom and Urruttia in high school? How big is it now?

 

But, you're making a mistake by grouping me in with "you guys"...

 

1) You haven't seen me comment on the SOS, because I don't think it's relevant.

2) I said I still think Brohm is better.

3) I think Woodson is closer to Brohm than most think, and he has more untapped physical potential. He may never reach it, but I think it's there.

4) I think Brohm is a potential first round pick in the NFL, just not a lock to be one.

 

So, I'm not spinning anything. I'm just telling you what I think. You might want to read my posts to see what I think before making assumptions. It does seem that some people get extremely sensitive when Brohm is questioned as anything less than perfect though. That's just an observation of mine.

 

And, as you would say...thanks for playing...

Cantwell played against Miami, K-State, and MTSU....

 

K-State sold out against the run, and MTSU...I said MTSU.

 

Let's try one of your arguments. If Louisville has this huge propensity to run the ball for touchdowns then wouldn't it make sense for most teams to sell out against the run in the red zone? Or is the Kansas State staff the only one that watches game tape and can see that trend? And if in fact Louisville tends to run it in from in close why are 4/6 of Brohm's touchdowns from less than 10 yards--after all he has the two leading receivers in YPC in the Big East, they must be able to get open deep but he's only been able to strike deep for a touchdown twice? I never said Brohm was the 97th best quarterback in the country--I did say however, that he is not listed on any of the major sites as being in the top 8-10 juniors in the country and would not be a first round pick after this year--they don't draft quarterbacks with his numbers in the first round PERIOD.

As far as this statement goes...i could buy that...But Brian's potential is still way out there as far as limitations....he's got so many things that he can do...and learn to become THE elite QB...he certainly has some work to do, but let's see how this whole thing shakes out...I am certainly disappointed in his TD numbers, and the second half against Rutgers, other than that...he has made numerous, right decisions over the latter...you do have to look at how many TD's Louisville runs for, compared to UK.

 

I don't believe we're that far apart on what we think. I agree that Brohm has plenty of room for improvement...more than I would have thought when the season started. He just hasn't been that impressive this year to me, but I can give him a pass because of the injury for one. And, I'm not going to jump to conclusions and declare Andre Woodson better than him based on one season. I just think Woodson is starting to tap into his huge upside and with a healthy roster we're seeing what he's capable of. And he's not as far behind Brohm as most think...and as I would have thought 2 or 3 months ago.

 

But, as I've said, and I will repeat it again. I still think Brohm is better at this point.

I think he is a lock right now. A GM looks, and see's his ability to overcome injury, his work ethic, and decision making, his downside, many arrogant GM's think they can fix.

 

We disagree here. I think he certainly could be a first rounder and I wouldn't be the least bit shocked. I just don't see it as a lock right now.

You're reaching for something that isn't there.

 

You're not going to sit there and tell me that Brohm wasn't surrounded by superior talent while at Trinity, are you? And, that every great high school player is a D-1 stud?

 

I'm not saying he was surrounded by studs, but his surrounding team was better than almost any other high school QB in KY.

 

Justin Haddix was a great high school QB for Breathitt County, but he didn't get any serious looks from D-1 either. That doesn't make him any less great at the high school level. How big of a difference was there in McBroom and Urruttia in high school? How big is it now?

 

But, you're making a mistake by grouping me in with "you guys"...

 

1) You haven't seen me comment on the SOS, because I don't think it's relevant.

2) I said I still think Brohm is better.

3) I think Woodson is closer to Brohm than most think, and he has more untapped physical potential. He may never reach it, but I think it's there.

4) I think Brohm is a potential first round pick in the NFL, just not a lock to be one.

 

So, I'm not spinning anything. I'm just telling you what I think. You might want to read my posts to see what I think before making assumptions. It does seem that some people get extremely sensitive when Brohm is questioned as anything less than perfect though. That's just an observation of mine.

 

And, as you would say...thanks for playing...

What can you show me that proves McBroom, Mudd and Riddle were anything more than average HS players with a great QB? The big time scouts were at the games, so did they miss it? Did guys catching balls from Couch maybe have the same story? I disputed a claim that Trinity had the pick of the litter at WR while Brohm was there. It simply isn't true...

Another number that I just discovered when looking up something on another thread where someone was touting Brohm as the first team All Big East quarterback. He is currently LAST in touchdown passes amongst starters in the Big East, he is a good quarterback but all conference and All American honors are awards that are given based on stats and he is seriously lacking there this year.

What can you show me that proves McBroom, Mudd and Riddle were anything more than average HS players with a great QB? The big time scouts were at the games, so did they miss it? Did guys catching balls from Couch maybe have the same story? I disputed a claim that Trinity had the pick of the litter at WR while Brohm was there. It simply isn't true...

 

I would say they were probably better than average, but I'm not well versed on Trinity football. I do know that Brohm is and was great QB, so that would obviously make them look better.

 

And, I didn't make the claim that Trinity had the pick of the litter...just that Brohm's supporting cast (the whole team, not just WR's) was better than the majority of teams he played against and that should help him, just like his presence would help his receivers. But, that's true with most successful high school QB's.

 

In any case, I don't think there is much point in taking this any further because I don't think we actually have much of a disagreement. :thumb:

What can you show me that proves McBroom, Mudd and Riddle were anything more than average HS players with a great QB? The big time scouts were at the games, so did they miss it? Did guys catching balls from Couch maybe have the same story? I disputed a claim that Trinity had the pick of the litter at WR while Brohm was there. It simply isn't true...

 

I also would make the point that Brohm benefitted from playing at Trinity because they are probably better coached than 95% of the high schools in the state. Which kind of sets up my point about D-1 talent...there is a lot of raw talent in U of L, like Super Mario, that may be untapped. At Trinity, I suspect the players are far more polished because they eat, breathe and sleep football.

 

I'm not trying argue anything one way or the other with that statement, other than making the point that Trinity is a well oiled football machine, so they're likely getting the more out of their talent than some other schools. I could be wrong about that though.

I also would make the point that Brohm benefitted from playing at Trinity because they are probably better coached than 95% of the high schools in the state. Which kind of sets up my point about D-1 talent...there is a lot of raw talent in U of L, like Super Mario, that may be untapped. At Trinity, I suspect the players are far more polished because they eat, breathe and sleep football.

 

I'm not trying argue anything one way or the other with that statement, other than making the point that Trinity is a well oiled football machine, so they're likely getting the more out of their talent than some other schools. I could be wrong about that though.

There is no doubt T and X get more out of less as their standard operating procedure. That still doesn't make the talent level better...

IMO, the bottom line in this whole debate is that Woodson is having a great year, and Brohm isn't...This is BY FAR Woodson's best year as a QB for UK, and that deserves some recognition. I can see where the guys are coming from in their arguments that Woodson has greatly improved, and anybody who has looked at the stats can easily see that. I do think its still a stretch to say that Woodson is a better QB than Brohm at this point though. If Brohm had been playing this year like he has the past two, I believe the arguement would be more fair. Again, Im not taking anything away from Woodson, those are just my two cents.

Let's try one of your arguments. If Louisville has this huge propensity to run the ball for touchdowns then wouldn't it make sense for most teams to sell out against the run in the red zone? Or is the Kansas State staff the only one that watches game tape and can see that trend? And if in fact Louisville tends to run it in from in close why are 4/6 of Brohm's touchdowns from less than 10 yards--after all he has the two leading receivers in YPC in the Big East, they must be able to get open deep but he's only been able to strike deep for a touchdown twice? I never said Brohm was the 97th best quarterback in the country--I did say however, that he is not listed on any of the major sites as being in the top 8-10 juniors in the country and would not be a first round pick after this year--they don't draft quarterbacks with his numbers in the first round PERIOD.

- Some do...and they score anyway, others drop back a bunch of people and force Louisville to run it in...on 3rd downs they playaction, with some TD's.

- If you are watching ALL of Brian's games, you will see that alot of his damage is done between the 20's...againt WVU I think he had 4-5 plays over 20+ yards, but none went to the house.

 

- Sportsline, etc...do use nothing but numbers, for their ratings, which is fine and dandy, but you will not see Colt Brennan, or TTech's QB's starting the Pro Bowl anytime soon. There are intangibles, such as a completely reconstructed knee, a rush back from thumb surgery..all to make a special season.

Another number that I just discovered when looking up something on another thread where someone was touting Brohm as the first team All Big East quarterback. He is currently LAST in touchdown passes amongst starters in the Big East, he is a good quarterback but all conference and All American honors are awards that are given based on stats and he is seriously lacking there this year.

he will likely be all conference by season's end.

IMO, the bottom line in this whole debate is that Woodson is having a great year, and Brohm isn't...This is BY FAR Woodson's best year as a QB for UK, and that deserves some recognition. I can see where the guys are coming from in their arguments that Woodson has greatly improved, and anybody who has looked at the stats can easily see that. I do think its still a stretch to say that Woodson is a better QB than Brohm at this point though. If Brohm had been playing this year like he has the past two, I believe the arguement would be more fair. Again, Im not taking anything away from Woodson, those are just my two cents.

Pretty accurate 2.

- Some do...and they score anyway, others drop back a bunch of people and force Louisville to run it in...on 3rd downs they playaction, with some TD's.

- If you are watching ALL of Brian's games, you will see that alot of his damage is done between the 20's...againt WVU I think he had 4-5 plays over 20+ yards, but none went to the house.

 

- Sportsline, etc...do use nothing but numbers, for their ratings, which is fine and dandy, but you will not see Colt Brennan, or TTech's QB's starting the Pro Bowl anytime soon. There are intangibles, such as a completely reconstructed knee, a rush back from thumb surgery..all to make a special season.

 

Actually these ratings are for the top juniors according to draft status. As I said earlier Kiper doesn't have him listed among the top 8 juniors this year. I think the injuries have taken him from a first round pick to a question mark. I do think that a strong late season push and/or a strong season next year would answer those questions and put him where his potential and talent dictate. IMO with only 3 games to go I think he'll have a tough time making all conference with the years that Palko and White have had--those are number based awards and he just doesn't have them this year.

^ except that they are voted on by the coaches I believe....and Brian has 3 conference games left.