If the dad had his hands on the gator and trying to pull its jaws open the I as a dad would try to just hold on for the death toll myself and it would have to kill me first. I'm not sure what happened and never want to know or experienced it.

So many prayers for that family.

@rockmom thank you for that assessment.

 

At your resort you have hiking and biking trails...if a guest were chased by a bear, I think your resort may decide to close those trails until it was safe and you were as sure as possible the bear was out of the area. Would you put up "Trail Closed" signs or "Trail Closed due to Bear Activity" signs...one may keep guest off the trail and one definitely would keep guest off the trail.

 

My ONLY issue with Disney is that they had an alligator encounter just a few weeks ago in this same area but only had up tepid "No Swimming Signs." Guest may have thought that wading was OK, or the signs were up because no Life Guard was on Duty or any of a number of reasons. But putting an Alligator Warning on the beach would have clearly defined the warning and people probably would have stayed completely out of and away from the water.

 

Yes I know it's Florida and there are Alligators everywhere, but I think that once you check into a Disney resort, running into a wild Gator is the furthest thing from your mind.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure. Not apples to apples, but we have a weather policy. If lightning is within x distance, all golf courses are cleared, outdoor pools cleared and outdoor activities are suspended. We have a weather alert system and so everyone gets the same info, sees the same radar, etc. A few weeks ago, there was a weather event that fell within the guidelines of closing the courses , etc, and we did. But the event veered away from us and went south. Our guests were livid because we disrupted their activities. We were HAMMERED for it. We reevaliased the policy, adjusted the distance and ran drills to see how much time it would take. Now we have a revised policy. But you know what will eventually hapen? We'll go by that policy and the front will move faster than anticipated and we'll get HAMMERED because we didn't protect them, or they got wet, or we made them leave. You can't win, really. You just keep trying to make the right call and balance safety and security with meeting the guests expectations. It's easy being the Monday morning QB in cases like this.

Honestly, I'm not sure. Not apples to apples, but we have a weather policy. If lightning is within x distance, all golf courses are cleared, outdoor pools cleared and outdoor activities are suspended. We have a weather alert system and so everyone gets the same info, sees the same radar, etc. A few weeks ago, there was a weather event that fell within the guidelines of closing the courses , etc, and we did. But the event veered away from us and went south. Our guests were livid because we disrupted their activities. We were HAMMERED for it. We reevaliased the policy, adjusted the distance and ran drills to see how much time it would take. Now we have a revised policy. But you know what will eventually hapen? We'll go by that policy and the front will move faster than anticipated and we'll get HAMMERED because we didn't protect them, or they got wet, or we made them leave. You can't win, really. You just keep trying to make the right call and balance safety and security with meeting the guests expectations. It's easy being the Monday morning QB in cases like this.

 

Everything you have said in your last few posts shows that your place of operation exercised "reasonable" control of the risk. Disney has probably some of the best risk control personnel and lawyers as well. That said, they could have dropped the ball here. Legal system will decide.

And yes, the sign should be a dead give away.

 

Time for Disney to make sure the signs are a "dead" give away.

Also, from CNN,

 

"His father jumped in and tried to pry the gator's mouth open. His mother jumped in, too."

 

-This, to me, sounds like neither the boys father nor mother were with him at the time, hence having to "jump in." Could be reading into that a little to much though.

 

This says to me that parents were partying on the beach like they were still single, kid wanders off not being watched, goes into water, parents jump in after realizing child is drowning, they can't save him,blame gators

This says to me that parents were partying on the beach like they were still single, kid wanders off not being watched, goes into water, parents jump in after realizing child is drowning, they can't save him,blame gators

 

That's a reach. You think maybe they jumped in because the gator was already retreating into the water? You really are cynical.

For those that say Disney is at fault, what if they put in a boardwalk with a 3ft. high fence on the water-side, with signs that said "Alligators" and had pictures of them on it? That way it allows even most of the youngsters to see over it, without it seeming like a prison yard. Does that give everybody enough warning and safety, compared to what is being reported is there right now?

For those that say Disney is at fault, what if they put in a boardwalk with a 3ft. high fence on the water-side, with signs that said "Alligators" and had pictures of them on it? That way it allows even most of the youngsters to see over it, without it seeming like a prison yard. Does that give everybody enough warning and safety, compared to what is being reported is there right now?

They will have to do some kind of asthetically pleasing redesign similar to what you are describing. And maybe have some kind of water feature/wishing well type thing so kids can still have the "beach" feel to their vacation and fill their little buckets with water to build their sand castles.

That's a reach. You think maybe they jumped in because the gator was already retreating into the water? You really are cynical.

 

It'll be on Dateline in a year

I think we are giving too much credit to the human race. Millions of visitors visit the park yearly and I guarantee plenty of those visitors are pretty dense.

 

Has it been verified that the beach had signs mentioning wildlife hazards? If not they were irresponsible if they knew gators were present. I guarantee plenty of folks aren't swift enough to believe gators are present when the property is inviting them to get close to the water in which they can't swim.

 

I don't see Disney fighting this in court. They surely wouldn't want to disappoint any future visitors by getting into a nasty legal battle.

I guarantee plenty of those visitors are pretty dense.

You can be dense yet still have the means to pay for an expensive Disney vacation.

And that is the market that Disney needs to focus on.

I've tried to stay out of this, but, I can't. As many of you know, I work at a resort. Granted, it's not a Disney operation, nor do we have beaches. But we do have plenty of activities/features at the resort. We have 3000 acres, and miles and miles of hiking/biking trails. The resort abuts the Hoosier National Forest. So, there is a ton of wildlife around the resort. While it's unusual that anything more dangerous than a deer comes out of the woods, it's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

As small as our operation is, we have an on-site risk management office, on-site legal counsel, and we have a compliance officer. We are constantly evaluating the resort and our risk in any number of areas. Activities and events and grounds and buildings...everything is constantly being evaluated and procedures put in place/measures taken to minimize risk, not only our risk, but risk to our guests.

 

Disney is hundreds of times bigger than our little resort. I am confident that they were not negligent. And I hate the vehemence by which everyone jumps to assume Disney should be held accountable. I think a lot of that is because it's a 2 year old child. We have full grown adults who fall off cruise ships and we don't have outraged people vehemently declaring the cruise line responsible. Heck, we don't even have threads about those.

 

Anyway....attractions, destinations and such are in a pickle. You (John Q Consumer) demand "authenticity", "experiences", etc. You want everything to be perfectly magical. You want to suspend reality and you expect your resort/hotel/attraction of choice delivers that. You don't want to see ugly fences. You want the language of signage to be friendly, and not too commanding. Yet, over and over I've seen guests get themselves into situations because they didn't use common sense.

 

I would fight this to the death, if I were Disney. There is only so much an establishment can do to control the environment. I'm not sure even what the real story is, with regard to the child being snatched. Only recently has the story changed and all of a sudden the child was NOT in the water...but they (the parents) told first responders initially that he was? I think there's a measure of CYA there, myself.

 

Anyway....Sometimes it's crappy, but life happens. I've been told when a 2 year old finds a loaded gun in the console of a vehicle and shoots themselves the parents are suffering so they shouldn't be arrested for negligence. I'll just use that and apply it here. As a person "in the biz", I'm defending the resort.

Sorry but putting this on what John Q consumer wants is a crap. John Q consumer doesn't force any busy do anything. You as the resort want John Q consumer to stay at your resort so you make the decision to comprise safety to improve the view. Disney built the lake knowing it would make for a nice selling point. They put the sand and made a fun family beach. The fact they didn't have so much as a simple sign informing guests there are alligators in the water is garbage. Yes I know Florida has gators but looking at the pic JD posted no chance do I think that beach has gators if there is no sign stating as much. IF there was really no sign informing guest of the danger of alligators then Disney should be 100% liable.

Sorry but putting this on what John Q consumer wants is a crap. John Q consumer doesn't force any busy do anything. You as the resort want John Q consumer to stay at your resort so you make the decision to comprise safety to improve the view. Disney built the lake knowing it would make for a nice selling point. They put the sand and made a fun family beach. The fact they didn't have so much as a simple sign informing guests there are alligators in the water is garbage. Yes I know Florida has gators but looking at the pic JD posted no chance do I think that beach has gators if there is no sign stating as much. IF there was really no sign informing guest of the danger of alligators then Disney should be 100% liable.

Great post @woodsrider.

Are Hotels Liable for Alligator Attacks?

 

Based on this, it's going to be a stretch to prove the resort was liable.

 

Not make light of the situation but. Finding the hotel/resort liable in this situation. It's similar to finding a hotel liable for someone that's mugged/murdered in a hotel with a high crime rate.

 

Simply put, be mindful of your surroundings.

If the dad had his hands on the gator and trying to pull its jaws open the I as a dad would try to just hold on for the death toll myself and it would have to kill me first. I'm not sure what happened and never want to know or experienced it.

So many prayers for that family.

 

It's easy to Monday quarterback something you weren't a part of. I doubt he just gave up....