Adult 8th grader? That's almost unbelievable. How are the parents of the other kids feeling about this?

I think I see what Joker is trying to say. Cordia broke rules, per the KHSAA quite a few of them. But rules are broken, or at least bent by schools all over the state every year. In most cases the KHSAA isn't very aggressive about doing much about it. Cordia was different in that instead of breaking one or two rules they've been accused of breaking fourteen. And in the KHSAA eyes, that's completely overboard. The KHSAA heard the outcry from around the state, saw that it's authority was being challenged, and decided to take action.

It's like the KHSAA is saying, "Okay, it's a no-no to break any of our rules but if you do make sure it's two or less. Anything more will get our attention. You can definitely count on fourteen violations being addressed! Keep it small and save us a lot of trouble, headaches, and public outcry."

 

There's slippery stuff going on every year throughout the state. The upcoming season will be no different. Players moving to different districts for purely athletic reasons, parents getting school jobs because they have athletically talented children, open enrollment policies being manipulated and abused in the more populated counties (which can lead to all star teams gathering at one school, an unfair advantage), etc.

 

I'm not condoning what has happened at Cordia. Rhodes is a loose cannon that was allowed too much freedom by the administrators at Cordia, and now the school and community is paying a heavy price. But what I will say is the KHSAA is inconsistent. It appears Cordia's biggest sin was breaking too many rules instead of keeping it small, like many others do. That way it doesn't garner as much attention. There's schools in Cordia's own region that haven't got the cleanest track record over the years in a few of those fourteen charges that were brought against Cordia. They just knew how to keep it at a smaller number. It's quieter that way.

Is reducing tuition costs for athletes, in essence the same as paying players?

yes

 

Why should they be treated any different than any other student?

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this before in this thread. But what about the Judge that ruled the two players eligible just hours before the second game of the All A Classic against Paducah St Mary. Do you think he has any remorse now. It was a shock to know that a judge would do this. As a parent of one of the St Mary players, I feel like he also cheated. Any team that played Cordia and lost to them in any elimination game wether it was All A or districts was cheated!

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this before in this thread. But what about the Judge that ruled the two players eligible just hours before the second game of the All A Classic against Paducah St Mary. Do you think he has any remorse now. It was a shock to know that a judge would do this. As a parent of one of the St Mary players, I feel like he also cheated. Any team that played Cordia and lost to them in any elimination game wether it was All A or districts was cheated!

I agree with you. It's just not right in any way or fashion.

 

I also still have a problem with Jokers defending them and he says he would agree if Keita was actually 19 years old...who cares if he was 19 or not, the entire program stinks to high heaven and there is no defense of what they did. If the kid was not as old as we all know he was, how does that make everything else Cordia did right?

 

They should be banned from playing any competitive basketball for a decade at least. It's embarrassing the arrogance that Rhodes and the other parties had to think they could get away with it. Any ounce of respect I had for Rhodes from back in the UK days has been destroyed, I think he's a piece of crap and should be banned from coaching at the High School level for life.

I don't know, I'll let you be the judge...

 

This is Oumar Keita, 6'10" 8th grader at Cordia:

 

 

This is Omar Keita, 6'10" kid from Africa club basketball who was born in 1995:

 

Without a close up on the top guys face, I can't say whether they are the same guy...

 

Regardless of that, the guy in the top picture is NOT in 8th grade. That seems pretty obvious to me.

It's like the KHSAA is saying, "Okay, it's a no-no to break any of our rules but if you do make sure it's two or less. Anything more will get our attention. You can definitely count on fourteen violations being addressed! Keep it small and save us a lot of trouble, headaches, and public outcry."

 

 

Actually it's nothing like that at all and you should know better. Very simply put, accusations, innuendo and rumor is NOT reporting to the KHSAA or any other governing body. Whining and complaining on a website about "all the violations" going on elsewhere is just that, whining and complaining. The KHSAA is NOT a preventive body, they are an investigative body once there is something filed worth investigating. Look, I'm not defending the decisions of the KHSAA, Lord knows I've seen some incredibly inept decisions, but you cannot blame an organization for not investigating something where there has never been an official complaint! Joker's far-reaching rationalization of the violations committed by Cordia do not pass the smell test when you examine them closely, and they were REPORTED to the proper agency. These violations are real, not imagined or alluded to by fans. If you have proof of violations at a school then the onus is on YOU to report those violations and then follow up to see that they are acted on. Excusing one's indiscretions because "everyone else is doing it" is the absolute height of hypocrisy. Cordia got what they deserved, as did Fairview, as did Rose Hill and others. If others are breaking the rules REPORT IT. Don't whine about it on a website.

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this before in this thread. But what about the Judge that ruled the two players eligible just hours before the second game of the All A Classic against Paducah St Mary. Do you think he has any remorse now. It was a shock to know that a judge would do this. As a parent of one of the St Mary players, I feel like he also cheated. Any team that played Cordia and lost to them in any elimination game wether it was All A or districts was cheated!

 

Welcome wkybasketball. Always good to see more far western brethren joining the board. I/we hope to hear more from you about WKY sports, always good to have more input from down that way.

Actually it's nothing like that at all and you should know better. Very simply put, accusations, innuendo and rumor is NOT reporting to the KHSAA or any other governing body. Whining and complaining on a website about "all the violations" going on elsewhere is just that, whining and complaining. The KHSAA is NOT a preventive body, they are an investigative body once there is something filed worth investigating. Look, I'm not defending the decisions of the KHSAA, Lord knows I've seen some incredibly inept decisions, but you cannot blame an organization for not investigating something where there has never been an official complaint! Joker's far-reaching rationalization of the violations committed by Cordia do not pass the smell test when you examine them closely, and they were REPORTED to the proper agency. These violations are real, not imagined or alluded to by fans. If you have proof of violations at a school then the onus is on YOU to report those violations and then follow up to see that they are acted on. Excusing one's indiscretions because "everyone else is doing it" is the absolute height of hypocrisy. Cordia got what they deserved, as did Fairview, as did Rose Hill and others. If others are breaking the rules REPORT IT. Don't whine about it on a website.

 

WARNING: Don't wake a sleeping "Papa" bear.

ASHLAND FAIRVIEW: stripped of 2012 state runnerup, removed from playoffs in 2013

Fairview High School sanctioned, fined by KHSAA for using ineligible football player

 

ASHLAND ROSE HILL CHRISTIAN: Two-year postseason ban on boys basketball, a $6,000 fine and a three-year probation

MARK MAYNARD: Rose Hill image takes a hit 12/08/09 » Daily Independent (Ashland, KY)

 

FORT THOMAS HIGHLANDS: forfeit 12 wins, coach fined $1,500, coach suspended two games

(Everything was later restored)

Vaught's Views: KHSAA logic continues to befuddle - Central Kentucky News

 

GLASGOW: Barren County athlete busted for second time for drugs, transfers to Glasgow. KHSAA fines him ineligible, KHSAA taken to court

No play time for transfer student » Glasgow Daily Times, Glasgow, KY

 

HENDERSON COUNTY: All athletic programs on probation, $7,000 fine, FB coach suspended

Henderson High Violates KHSAA Rules - 14 News, WFIE, Evansville, Henderson, Owensboro

KHSAA penalizes HCHS - Gleaner Story

 

HOPKINSVILLE: Fined in 2001 for ineligible BB player; used ineligible FB player in 97, had to forfeit games and return district, region and state trophies

KHSAA to review eligibility of HHS football player - Kentucky New Era: Home

 

LEXINGTON CATHOLIC: Fined "almost $31,000) in 2005. Other penalties as well.

http://bluegrasspreps.com/controversial-issues/khsaa-lexington-catholic-84277.html

 

LOUISVILLE HOLY CROSS: suspension of the involved coaches (including head coach Todd Crumbacker) from the first five (5) spring football practice sessions in 2013; restrictions on attendance at events in nearby counties; and other required policy and training requirements for all coaches at the school, $500 fine, probation.

Catholic Sports Network Advertising

 

SCOTT COUNTY: Euton (D-I signee, originally a UK commit) found ineligible by KHSAA, but went to court to overturn KHSAA. Chad Jackson (another D-I transfer) was originally found INELIGIBLE too, but overturned:

KHSAA: Euton ineligible | Scott County | Kentucky.com

http://bluegrasspreps.com/ky-boys-basketball/euton-ineligible-jackson-154778-page3.html

 

Yup. The KHSAA only picks on small EKY schools who can't fight back.

 

Can't argue selective enforcement.

 

Of course, none of the above had 14 violations at one time, either.

WARNING: Don't wake a sleeping "Papa" bear.

 

How'd you know I was taking a nap? I mean, I WAS at work, but . . .

I agree that recruiting is an issue across the state, but I can't understand why you see no difference between teams who supplement their roster with a player and a school who depends almost exclusively on players who are only there to play basketball.

You mentioned Clay, but my guess is Cordia had more transfers in one season than Clay had in 25 years.

Also, Oneida Baptist has had a much better program than Cordia through the years. They had very good teams in the past, and did add numerous players from around the country. The difference was OBI brought in students who played basketball, not basketball players who went to class to stay eligible.

 

 

Let's be honest, 1992 UHA, 2002 Lexington Catholic, 2012 Trinity, those teams did more than just "supplement their roster with a player". Scott County has had some teams that have had more than "just a player to fill a hole".

 

I'm trying to provoke thought and debate about where people draw the line. For some people, the number seems to be 1-2 kids per team, for some it may be more, for some it may be none. Some people factor in how far the kid travels to get there.

 

Some people think it's when they come. Sorry, I don't really see as much of a different as compared to most when some schools are steering kids their way at the 5th, 6th, 7th grade levels and others move as a junior or senior. In all likelihood, there's technically not really a KHSAA rule with enough teeth to keeps someone loosely affiliated with a school or coach (like say a parent who has a kid that will go there one day but isn't involved in the program in any meaningful way at the moment) from "building" an AAU team and taking care of things so that when things get handed off to the people who are dealing with things at the high school level, they're going to feel like they've been dealt a nice hand. When you've got something like that going on, maybe there's been more than 1 hole plugged.

 

 

I really don't care if any school gets transfers to play. I don't care if their main motivation is going there to play basketball. I've been consistent in saying I think the kids should be held to a reasonable academic standard and pushed to achieve.

 

I am saying that, it's easy to say, "Well, x or y school in Louisville just gets some of the better kids in the Louisville area" and think it's that different than saying "Cordia gets kids from out of state". When you have the population and talent pool that some schools have in their backyard, you shouldn't have to go too far to get kids. Everyone doesn't have that advantage though. I'd like my chances in saying you couldn't even make an All-Star team from the 14th anytime from 1990 to 2010 that would have been the favorite to win State. Maybe some of the years when Ben Bowling was at his peak you could throw in some Hazard kids and randoms or a football player type from Breathitt, but even then, I don't know. That's why I don't really care that they try to load up as much as they can.

 

I think people are kidding themselves if they think some of the kids who end up where they do would even get a sniff from that school under the "package" that's offered if you take basketball talent out of the equation and replace it with an equal talent for making good grades.

 

I think it should be an offense that gets people involved banished from the KHSAA if they knowingly play a 19 year old kid that they're trying to pass off as an 8th grader. Things like that, I am in no way defending.

 

I'm just saying that people are seeing "14 violations" and freaking out, but I'd bet that you could take a three year period for plenty of other schools "in the game" and find the same number of violations if you had access to perfect information. How many of those 14 violations are things that, if you take them in isolation and apply them to another school, they'd reach the same conclusion?

 

When you're talking about an "open gym" violation, providing transportation to help move, providing money and clothing, impermissible contact, "falsifying, or maintaining inaccurate records with respect to transferring student athletes", then we can fill a phonebook with only the names of schools and the section of the code they violated for each time they offended the rules under that interpretation if we did a 20 year history on the state. Take it down to 5th grade AAU and go from that point forward and attribute each violation to the high school that stands to benefit and imagine the kind of log you'd have.

 

I don't really care and I think if someone wants to spend their own money on bringing in Thon Maker tomorrow so their local high school can win, then that's them. I draw the line on things like, "let's knowingly play this guy who is too old to be eligible", "Player X is our star player and we need him to win our next game, so let's give him a pass on blacking his girlfriend's eye and punish him later or the next time he does it", "Player Y could be a good student and nothing in his life is going on that would explain why he's doing bad in school, but he's never coming to school, doesn't turn in work, etc.".

 

That's me and where I'm coming from with it.

It's like the KHSAA is saying, "Okay, it's a no-no to break any of our rules but if you do make sure it's two or less. Anything more will get our attention. You can definitely count on fourteen violations being addressed! Keep it small and save us a lot of trouble, headaches, and public outcry."

 

 

Actually it's nothing like that at all and you should know better. Very simply put, accusations, innuendo and rumor is NOT reporting to the KHSAA or any other governing body. Whining and complaining on a website about "all the violations" going on elsewhere is just that, whining and complaining. The KHSAA is NOT a preventive body, they are an investigative body once there is something filed worth investigating. Look, I'm not defending the decisions of the KHSAA, Lord knows I've seen some incredibly inept decisions, but you cannot blame an organization for not investigating something where there has never been an official complaint! Joker's far-reaching rationalization of the violations committed by Cordia do not pass the smell test when you examine them closely, and they were REPORTED to the proper agency. These violations are real, not imagined or alluded to by fans. If you have proof of violations at a school then the onus is on YOU to report those violations and then follow up to see that they are acted on. Excusing one's indiscretions because "everyone else is doing it" is the absolute height of hypocrisy. Cordia got what they deserved, as did Fairview, as did Rose Hill and others. If others are breaking the rules REPORT IT. Don't whine about it on a website.

 

 

Sorry, I'm not the KHSAA violations police and I'm going to go tattling on programs for breaking a rule like recruiting that I've openly said I don't have a problem with anyway.

 

Having the attitude that you have about it, I would say it's hypocrisy on your part if you know of even the smallest rules violations by one of your favorite teams and don't report it yourself.

 

We can agree to disagree on views and that's fine. But if you want me to report a violation and uphold all of the rules, then tell me who your favorite team is and maybe I start seeing things your way and report the first violation that I actually know they've committed. I can't follow the whole state, especially from Texas, but I guess I could pick one school and follow your lead.

 

If we're going to do it, let's do it right though. If you have to present concrete proof to the KHSAA, we are probably going to need a licensed private investigator and an audit of the school's athletics department conducted by a compliance agency. Nothing to hide and everything is on the up and up then no problem, right?

 

Maybe the day that I actually know of one doesn't come, but maybe it comes quicker than you think it might. If it did, I'd hope you wouldn't call me a jerk for doing that because rules are rules, right? I'd just be reporting a violation and trying to get to the truth, not whining about it on a message board.

 

 

To the above, of course, I'm being facetious and I don't intend on doing that, but I do like arguing for the sake of arguing and wanted to point out why I don't personally agree with some of what you said.

 

 

If Cordia played a kid who was too old, then I agree that someone should have reported it and that if a proper investigation was carried out and it found wrongdoing as to that, then they should be punished. I'm not going to disagree with that.

 

Personally, I can still see that as being consistent with my past comments where I've said I don't care if schools get transfers, I don't care if kids get some benefits, etc.

yes

 

Why should they be treated any different than any other student?

 

My counter to that would be "they'd treat them different than any other student" because of their athletic talent.

 

If it's the case of an affluent school who goes out into some really rough neighborhoods and actively takes in kids with a talent for band, math, or something similar and offer them the same package that they do a kid with a talent for basketball, then they're what I'd consider to be a really solid organization who can say that it's really about more than winning a high school basketball game and it be true.

 

I don't really hear about tons of high school mathletes getting the kind of sweet hookups that you hear about athletes getting. I've never heard anyone say, "Billy is such a good math student, his school hired his Dad as the assistant coach for the academic team just so they could be sure they'd get him to transfer there". Maybe it happens, but I think it's safe to say that we hear about statements like those where you replace 'math' with 'running back' and 'academic' with 'freshman football' and the like.