What are Votto's numbers recently? You always need to look comparatively at stats to find their true meaning and/or value. I would like to see them side by side. When I look at their overall production numbers (runs, hits, RBI, HR) since the All Star break, they are almost identical.

 

The other thing I will say about this whole debate, MVP for me is often about people doing more than expected. For me, Votto has done less than I expected this year and Phillips has done more.

 

Using that logic, there's no way you can say Phillips is the team MVP. It has to be Leake.

Using that logic, there's no way you can say Phillips is the team MVP. It has to be Leake.

 

Leake has certainly performed better than a lot of people have expected. However, to say that a starting pitcher, who goes out there once every 5 days, is more valuable than a position player out there every day, is a bit of a stretch. Don't get me wrong, Leake is a very valuable part of this year's team. While most #5's are forcing managers to eat up their bullpen, Dusty has been very fortunate to not have to. But, Phillips was expected to be the #2 hitter this year, and after 1 game slid into the cleanup spot. Granted he's been there before, but the whole focus for him this year was to get on ahead of Votto, Ludwick and Bruce...not necessarily drive guys in.

Leake has certainly performed better than a lot of people have expected. However, to say that a starting pitcher, who goes out there once every 5 days, is more valuable than a position player out there every day, is a bit of a stretch. Don't get me wrong, Leake is a very valuable part of this year's team. While most #5's are forcing managers to eat up their bullpen, Dusty has been very fortunate to not have to. But, Phillips was expected to be the #2 hitter this year, and after 1 game slid into the cleanup spot. Granted he's been there before, but the whole focus for him this year was to get on ahead of Votto, Ludwick and Bruce...not necessarily drive guys in.

Um, that's not what Dusty said in the article and for sure not what an "old school" manager thought when he inserted him there. He fully expected him to drive in runs, not simply be a table setter. I know he has a penchant for R,L,R,L but as well as Votto hits lefties, it's a wash and he could have easily moved Bruce into the 4 hole.

Um, that's not what Dusty said in the article and for sure not what an "old school" manager thought when he inserted him there. He fully expected him to drive in runs, not simply be a table setter. I know he has a penchant for R,L,R,L but as well as Votto hits lefties, it's a wash and he could have easily moved Bruce into the 4 hole.

 

Yes, Dusty may have expected him to do that (drive in runs) from the number four spot, once he moved him there. But, prior to game 1, I'm pretty sure it'd have been to get on base ahead of Votto, Ludwick and Bruce. Sure, Brandon would've still gotten some RBI chances, but no way you expect your #2 guy to drive in 100 (and certainly not in the National League).

Using that logic, there's no way you can say Phillips is the team MVP. It has to be Leake.

 

Think broader .... widen the mind ... don't get fixated on one stat or piece of information as the be all and end all of the decision. You have to include all the info ... the saber stats, the traditional production numbers, the intangibles, defense, team dynamics, etc.

 

I am not upset if Votto is MVP. I can understand the reasons why and don't deny that he is the best hitter on the team. But I have to say that Phillips getting blasted and zero consideration as a possibility as MVP is just not right.

I have a hard time naming an MVP, whether team or league MVP, when they play once a week. Not devaluing their importance, I just don't believe it's right.

Anthony Castrovince: Joey Votto much more than a run-producer | reds.com: News

 

Article on Votto that I just saw.

See, it wasn't so hard to say was it?

 

I never said Phillips wasn't having a great year. I am saying it's a fluke. You don't seem to grasp the importance of OBP and OPS.

I never said Phillips wasn't having a great year. I am saying it's a fluke. You don't seem to grasp the importance of OBP and OPS.

 

Or the law of averages.

Votto leads the NL in runs created. 5 ahead of Goldschmidt.

 

That article proves Dusty has no idea what producing a run means. None.

I'm starting to feel sorry for those that believe statistics are the only way to determine value. You can't equate things like momentum shifts with a calculator. Some errors are more important than others. Some great plays are more important than others. Some stolen bases are huge for momentum shifts...and so on.

 

It's still a game being played by human beings. When robots play and everyone is equal physically, mentally and emotionally then stat away.

 

It's similar to hitting. It's not rotational, it's not linear...it's both.

 

And yes, I take some statistics pretty seriously. The only thing that truly matters offensively is Quality At-Bats. 50% or more Quality AB's and you're a pretty good hitter.

 

Just my opinion.

I'm starting to feel sorry for those that believe statistics are the only way to determine value. You can't equate things like momentum shifts with a calculator. Some errors are more important than others. Some great plays are more important than others. Some stolen bases are huge for momentum shifts...and so on.

 

It's still a game being played by human beings. When robots play and everyone is equal physically, mentally and emotionally then stat away.

 

It's similar to hitting. It's not rotational, it's not linear...it's both.

 

And yes, I take some statistics pretty seriously. The only thing that truly matters offensively is Quality At-Bats. 50% or more Quality AB's and you're a pretty good hitter.

 

Just my opinion.

Oh how I do love your "70's" approach.

I'm starting to feel sorry for those that believe statistics are the only way to determine value. You can't equate things like momentum shifts with a calculator. Some errors are more important than others. Some great plays are more important than others. Some stolen bases are huge for momentum shifts...and so on.

 

It's still a game being played by human beings. When robots play and everyone is equal physically, mentally and emotionally then stat away.

 

It's similar to hitting. It's not rotational, it's not linear...it's both.

 

And yes, I take some statistics pretty seriously. The only thing that truly matters offensively is Quality At-Bats. 50% or more Quality AB's and you're a pretty good hitter.

 

Just my opinion.

Ah, perfect.

The red headed kid is SSC.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPxNcdZFCWE

Which would make me by default, the joke teller.