So, if you were a GM and could pick up one Red, you'd take Phillips over Votto?

Didn't say that. I said THIS season he's the MVP.

.........All of these conversations about OBP, "not making outs", driving in runs vs the opportunity to drive in runs (Gametime's point), reminds me of the old debates over the pro's and con's of Adam Dunn and his .400 OBP when he was with the Reds. Obviously, Votto is a FAR more complete hitter, but so many of these posts are worded in a similar fashion.

Couldn't possibly disagree more.

 

He's not in the top 3.

You know, sometimes I wonder what it is that you see when you watch games. Truly I do.

I daggone guarantee any GM in the league if they could have any player off the Reds roster, Votto would be the guy in the vast majority of selections.

 

I would bet a great deal of money that GM's would take Latos versus saddling their team with the $200 million+ remaining on Joey's contract.

You know, sometimes I wonder what it is that you see when you watch games. Truly I do.

 

1. Votto

2. Latos

3. Choo

4. BP

 

Not that hard.

The REAL name of the game is scoring runs. One guy has produced them at a steady rate. And defensively he's the best at his position since Robbie Alomar. And Votto is a stud. But, again, BP has had the most valuable season to date.

The REAL name of the game is scoring runs. One guy has produced them at a steady rate. And defensively he's the best at his position since Robbie Alomar. And Votto is a stud. But, again, BP has had the most valuable season to date.

 

And you are allowed to feel that way. Unfortunately, there's not a person in the game that agrees with you (except for BP himself). :idunno:

Votto leads the NL in runs created. 5 ahead of Goldschmidt.

Votto leads the NL in runs created.

 

Game. Set. Match.

I have great admiration for BP and there is no doubt he has been clutch this year with the bases loaded. But if you asked me right now if we were in Game 7 of the World Series bases loaded, bottom of 9, 2 outs down by one run who I would want swinging the bat....Votto, not even a fair question in my mind...too easy.

You stat heads kill me. :lol2: This is what has dumbed down being a fan of the game. Nuances are lost, there's no such thing as the eyeball test any longer. You can quote all the stats you like, mix and match them, extrapolate them to whatever sabermetric degree you like. Without BP in the field, the Reds give up 20 more runs on the season (that's spindocmetrics). Votto can't hold Phillips jock in the defensive halves of innings. And that aside, we have fallen in love with MVP meaning offensive prowess. Leadoff hitters are run creators. The Reds have theirs in the 3hole, a place known to lodge the best hitter in one's lineup. And as a handler of the bat, I'd have to agree that he should be there. But his stats mislead to a degree. Votto from 2 seasons ago doesn't fail to drive in the run that puts the game away. This year's version has all season long. Phillips on the other hand, has been money with RISP. Let's find another stat to discount that, I'm sure there's more out there. Combine a few and make another stat. The X-box generation will love it.

I have great admiration for BP and there is no doubt he has been clutch this year with the bases loaded. But if you asked me right now if we were in Game 7 of the World Series bases loaded, bottom of 9, 2 outs down by one run who I would want swinging the bat....Votto, not even a fair question in my mind...too easy.

If THIS season is the measuring stick, you'd lose more often than if you had Phillips up there.

Just one man's opinion. Votto is second as a silver slugger, with Freeman in a close 3rd, and not close in MVP because he has been atrocious defensively. There's a lot of distance between .989 and .996. And let's face it, he's not getting to more balls than other first baseman. I know of at least 3 balls that Votto did not get errors on because he didn't get close to them, got to them and should've covered the bag...etc. Not to mention balls in the dirt at 1B. He had a good couple years, especially when he won the Gold Glove but he has been horrible defensively all season long. To me, that's not MVP.

 

Keeping in mind that this isn't always the criteria used to vote for NL MVP. Hell, a lot of years the leading hitter wins the Gold Glove Award.

Isn't Votto batting .321 with RISP. That's not exactly horrible. He's also had a lot less opportunities to drive in runs than BP. His bad stat is RISP with 2 outs but he has such a smaller sample size than BP.

BP 7 for his last 34 with RISP. Is that good???