Simple Rules Question (I Think)

[Geek61]

Been wanting to ask this for a week or so and just forgot. I though the answer was simple, but answers I have gotten are about 50/50 so maybe its not so obvious.

 

Runner on 1st, 1 out.

Batter hits a low pop-up and fielder drops it, but tags runner out before reaching first.

The runner who is on 1st returns to first safely thinking it was a popup. The 1st baseman tags the runner (standing on 1st base) and UMP calls him out as if the base is not there.

Ump stated that the runner cannot return to first.

This was the game ending play.

 

Was the call correct or not?

 

I'll go ahead say that I believe once they tag the batter, 1st Base is open to the runner.

[Clyde]

Been wanting to ask this for a week or so and just forgot. I though the answer was simple, but answers I have gotten are about 50/50 so maybe its not so obvious.

 

Runner on 1st, 1 out.

Batter hits a low pop-up and fielder drops it, but tags runner out before reaching first.

The runner who is on 1st returns to first safely thinking it was a popup. The 1st baseman tags the runner (standing on 1st base) and UMP calls him out as if the base is not there.

Ump stated that the runner cannot return to first.

This was the game ending play.

 

Was the call correct or not?

 

I'll go ahead say that I believe once they tag the batter, 1st Base is open to the runner.

 

 

I hope you saw this at a youth game where a kid was umpiring.

 

In your play the force is removed as soon as the fielder tags the batter. At that point the runner can either advance (and have to be tagged) or go back to first (and have to be tagged). Once he is ON the base he is safe.

 

Who are the "50%" that thought the umpire was correct?

[hja1224]

Probably the same umpire working the Cooper/ Ryle game. :clap:

[Guest ScottR88]

Probably the same umpire working the Cooper/ Ryle game. :clap:

Umpires do not make mistakes based on what others have posted!!!!

 

Clyde is correct, once the runner is tagged PRIOR to reaching 1st the force has been removed.... The second baseman must tag the runner for him to be out. Or the runner can return to the previous base.

[Oldtimebaseball84]

Infield fly rule in effect?

[nkuclubbaseball19]

Infield fly rule in effect?

 

Not with only one runner on base.

[Mac W]

Probably the same umpire working the Cooper/ Ryle game. :clap:

That's a good one

[jpa2825]

Correct play for the fielder (assuming there is time based on where the ball is dropped and how hard the batter runner is running) is either throw / touch 2nd and then throw on to 1st for the DP. If ball is dropped close to 1B, fielder needs to tag the runner on 1st (even if he is standing on the base) and THEN tag 1st base to get the DP. It always confuses players how they can tag a runner who is on a base and the runner still is out. (He is out because he is at risk due to being forced to go to 2B.)

 

NOTE: an infielder may not intentionally drop a fly ball in order to jeopardize a runner. However, if an infielder does not touch the ball and allows it to drop, this rule does not apply. This usually comes up when there is only a runner on 1st (i.e., no infield fly rule) and the batter fails to run out a popup. Infielder lets the ball drop and gets the DP.

 

I have actually always wondered why this isn't done more where there is a favorable runner exchange. For example, Drew Stubbs is on 1st, probably via a dropped 3rd strike , with nobody out and Ryan Howard / Prince Fielder / etc. pops up. Why not allow the ball to drop and throw to 2B to get Stubbs off the basepaths and substitute Fielder / Howard at 1B? Of course, you could always screw up the throw to 2B and end up with 1st & 2nd and nobody out.

[Clyde]

Correct play for the fielder (assuming there is time based on where the ball is dropped and how hard the batter runner is running) is either throw / touch 2nd and then throw on to 1st for the DP. If ball is dropped close to 1B, fielder needs to tag the runner on 1st (even if he is standing on the base) and THEN tag 1st base to get the DP. It always confuses players how they can tag a runner who is on a base and the runner still is out. (He is out because he is at risk due to being forced to go to 2B.)

 

NOTE: an infielder may not intentionally drop a fly ball in order to jeopardize a runner. However, if an infielder does not touch the ball and allows it to drop, this rule does not apply. This usually comes up when there is only a runner on 1st (i.e., no infield fly rule) and the batter fails to run out a popup. Infielder lets the ball drop and gets the DP.

 

I have actually always wondered why this isn't done more where there is a favorable runner exchange. For example, Drew Stubbs is on 1st, probably via a dropped 3rd strike , with nobody out and Ryan Howard / Prince Fielder / etc. pops up. Why not allow the ball to drop and throw to 2B to get Stubbs off the basepaths and substitute Fielder / Howard at 1B? Of course, you could always screw up the throw to 2B and end up with 1st & 2nd and nobody out.

 

 

As usual, good stuff.

[Geek61]

I hope you saw this at a youth game where a kid was umpiring.

 

In your play the force is removed as soon as the fielder tags the batter. At that point the runner can either advance (and have to be tagged) or go back to first (and have to be tagged). Once he is ON the base he is safe.

 

Who are the "50%" that thought the umpire was correct?

 

It was a youth game, but it was actually an adult umpire. It didn't really matter in big scheme of things. Just a frustrating way to end a game.

[Clyde]

It was a youth game, but it was actually an adult umpire. .

 

Gotcha.

 

Pretty basic rule to screw up.