Your post brings up interesting points and makes me ponder all the different behaviors that you are mentioning here, and various thoughts about each one individually.

 

B-Ball-Fan, I'm not trying to be a jerk but we had this discussion a few months a ago and you made me promise (hyperbole) to drop the subject and not get your goat going again. You and I are on opposite sides of the universe on this topic and believe it or not I kind of like you anyway (in a friendly manly sort of way:D).

B-Ball-fan, I appreciate your heartfelt post and your honesty on this topic. (But I really enjoy your insight on NKY basketball---looking forward to that starting up again!)

 

You put forth a very well thought out and logical post that I have been thinking about. So here is my thought process:

 

So in conclusion, the question in relationship to certain behaviors is: Is it "HARMFUL"

 

Drugs: HARMFUL

 

Child Molestation: HARMFUL

 

Overeating: HARMFUL

 

Homosexuality: NOT HARMFUL

 

I agree with the above, except that Spindoc's words keep coming back to me:

 

Whether you believe in God or not, I think we all can agree that all species have an innate drive to keep the species thriving. If homosexuality is hardwired in the species it is destined for extinction. If a species can't thrust genes into the next generation it dies. Simple logic.

 

My point is, that if everyone was gay, the human species would die. So there is a harmful aspect to it.

B-Ball-fan, I appreciate your heartfelt post and your honesty on this topic. (But I really enjoy your insight on NKY basketball---looking forward to that starting up again!)

 

You put forth a very well thought out and logical post that I have been thinking about. So here is my thought process:

 

 

 

I agree with the above, except that Spindoc's words keep coming back to me:

 

 

 

My point is, that if everyone was gay, the human species would die. So there is a harmful aspect to it.

 

OK, so why do you feel as though the goal (the "gay agenda," if you will) is to "convert" everyone to being gay? I'm at a loss as to why that keeps coming up. Actually, I'm not. It's because of male vanity, and the creepy thoughts that roll through the brains of overcompensatingly straight men that every gay guy is out to bed them. Honestly, get over yourselves.

B-Ball-fan, I appreciate your heartfelt post and your honesty on this topic. (But I really enjoy your insight on NKY basketball---looking forward to that starting up again!)

 

You put forth a very well thought out and logical post that I have been thinking about. So here is my thought process:

 

 

 

I agree with the above, except that Spindoc's words keep coming back to me:

 

 

 

My point is, that if everyone was gay, the human species would die. So there is a harmful aspect to it.

 

I'm glad that you dig my basketball insight. Truly it's a topic that I enjoy much more than this one.

 

However:

 

Yes it is true that if everyone was gay, the human species would die... But truly everyone is not gay, so I believe that you can relax and not worry about that considering the world population is nearing 7 billion people. To be blunt, you have to have an erection to ejaculate, and you have to ejaculate to make a baby. If a man is not attracted to the opposite sex, there's little he can do about obtaining and maintaining an erection. Forcing one would just be ridiculous, therefore what's the point?

 

Still, on the other hand, a gay man may be very attracted to his own sex and desire the closeness and warmth of human touch. His erection is certainly not lying to himself about his attractions. There, with his own sex is where he feels completely more comfortable and at ease. There is were his desires for love can be fulfilled. Forcing himself with a woman is just making both of them unhappy and unfulfilled. And to be clear, just because a man is gay doesn't mean that he is attracted to all men.

 

Yes, no doubt the majority of the people on the planet are straight, but not everyone is, and that's just the way that it is. Just as heterosexuality is a part of human science, so is homosexuality, just as is always has and always will be. When someone is not attracted to the opposite sex, why then should they be expected to turn off their natural sex drive just because it is for the same sex? It too is a sex drive, and as a human adult that person should be free to follow who they are and live life accordingly. If someone had no sex drive at all, which is also possible however it is little talked about, but it too is a truth in the human condition, should we expect them to try to make a baby anyhow? At the end of the day what difference should it make to anyone what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms? If I'm gay, what's that got to do with anyone but the person that I'm sharing a relationship with?

 

I've heard some straights say that they wished that all this talk about homosexuality would just go away. I do too. I would love nothing more than to live in a world where it didn't matter to anyone to make such an issue of. Thing is, is that straights rule the world, and nothing against heterosexuality, but they've always been free to speak freely about their lives and who they love, and send invitations out to all their friends and families to celebrate their union and hope to get a four slice toaster or a blender all because they're letting everyone know that this is the person they are going to share a bed with for the rest of their life. Well, if you're straight, feel pretty lucky, because no one objects, but if you're gay, many do. That's sorta why gays keep pushing for the same freedoms. It's not that we want to fight about it and go on and on about it. We just want the same understanding that straight people get when they tell their friends and families that they are in love, or want to introduce their partner in social settings and not be made to feel like freaks all because of it.

 

I realize that you can't force people to accept you, and that if their mind is made up, that's just the way it is, but you can't really blame gay people who grow tired of facing such a lack of understanding throughout their lives for something they themselves did not choose. True, a gay person has thought about it their whole life about how some straight people do not understand and how difficult it is to live in this world. Straight people really don't know what it's like, so it's hard to listen to straight people without wanting to scream at some of the illogical things they come up with. Humans have this idea that everyone is the same way, and if they aren't ... they should be. This is the same kind of thinking that will make a child with three fingers on each hand have to hear all kinds of unfair teasing from all the 10 fingered kids while growing up.

 

Honestly I think that a bigger unforgivable topic in all of this is the many homosexuals who have experienced gay bashing in their lifetime by groups of people that seem to think that it's ok to do so. Honestly, what's wrong with the human being who gets mad because someone else is gay and thinks the solution is to hurt them? What is it that is making them mad anyhow? That certainly is someone who is not behaving properly, if you ask me.

 

Truly though, the species is in no danger of dying, all the while homosexuality is still just one facet of human science. Think about it, if everyone was straight, then what would the population of the world would be then? Then where would we be? Who knows, perhaps homosexuality is just nature's way of controlling the population. ???

Your post brings up interesting points and makes me ponder all the different behaviors that you are mentioning here, and various thoughts about each one individually.

 

I'm not suggesting that I think that you lean one way or another with the topic, as you were just asking a question. Not sure if you were ultimately making a point about your personal beliefs, but if so I didn't detect one.

 

In this post I'd like to leave out the question of religion and just approach it more as a question of human behavior.

 

1. Drugs. It appears to be a "decision" made by someone that could be a result of various curiosities about the effects, pier pressure, social conditioning, behavioral conditioning, however when one becomes addicted it still may be a "decision", just one now that is very hard to control or resist. Ultimately, initially deciding to take drugs is something that can ultimately become very "harmful" and life threatening to the user. For the most part everyone agrees, even the drug culture, that taking drugs can ultimately be a bad and "harmful" decision and one that is very difficult to correct once addicted.

 

2. Child Molestation: This is a very difficult one. How one becomes a child molester is a puzzling question. I feel sorry for all involved. The children that are molested and the person who feels the uncontrollable urge to be one. However, just because someone has the uncontrollable urge does not mean that they can't stop from actually acting out on their urges, and since it brings "harm" to someone else, they absolutely should, no question about it. There can't be a blanket statement laid over everyone who is a child molester and why they are, but it wouldn't be surprising if they too as a child was also molested, and this ill-conditioning set them up to carry on this awful "harmful" behavior.

 

3. Overeating and lack of exercise: This all appears to boil down to a behavioral conditioning that, just as one was conditioned to overeat and not exercise, one can make a decision to do their best to recondition their behavior to eat right and work out. It is not easy for some, and in many ways food addiction is similar to drug addiction. Problem here is that we all need to eat to live, so being introduced to the stimulus of food can reactivate once more the urge to go overboard. Alcoholics and drug addicts can abstain because they don't need their drug of choice to live, however we all need to eat. Ultimately it's a decision mixed with reconditioning ones behavior, and by not trying you ultimately bring "harm" to yourself. Reconditioning takes repetition and is a very doable thing if focus is seriously taken to succeed.

 

The common thread in all these behaviors is that they bring "harm" to ones self or others.

 

As a homosexual, I can't say if I was born this way or some way through my early existence was inadvertently conditioned this way. No one ever molested me or brought "harm" my way, or forced me to be gay. I honestly can't say for sure why, but all I know that as far back as I can remember, I've always been attracted to men and not to women. I mean sexually that is, as I have many woman friends. Even before puberty, I knew that I was developing in that direction and even then I knew that society didn't accept it. The silent screams stayed inside of me until I was 20 and finally I came out about it. Until then I never told a soul and it really sucked feeling like I had no one to talk to. The only "harm" I experienced was related to bottling up my feelings because I knew that I stood that chance of ridicule, bullying, getting beat up etc etc etc... I, myself never really felt there was anything wrong or too different about me. Outside of these feelings, I was a fairly decent student, athlete, singer, and all around healthy competent person. Had issues here and there about keeping my weight down, but thankfully now I pretty much have it under control. I've been in loving fulfilling relationships which has brought much joy and happiness in my life just as straight folks experience. Nothing about it ever felt "harmful" to myself or to the person I loved (who passed away from cancer). Our love was a beautiful thing and very meaningful for both of us. Again the only "harm" had to do with society's attitudes and the annoying chore of having to skirt around that all of my life.

 

Some might say "What about AIDS?" Well, I'm sure most of you are aware that anyone can get AIDS, gay or straight, or the many various other sexually transmitted diseases that exist. That comes about with unsafe sexual habits and perhaps a promiscuous lifestyle which can happen to anyone gay or straight who is rolling the dice with their sex life. Two prominent reasons for gay male promiscuity is related to the fact that men in general are "typically" more promiscuous than woman, and since gay unity is frowned upon and typically hasn't throughout history been accepted, some men avoid one-on-one loving relationships in an attempt to hide that they are gay. If they settle with one person and are seen with that same person time and again it might make the outside world suspect that they are together, and some people are afraid of the social ramifications of having the outside world figure out that they are gay.

 

Bottom line though is that the VD factor can be shared by gay or straight, so in the topic of "harm" being done, it's up to the individual to be responsible with their sexuality. Be responsible and there is no "harm" being done.

 

So in conclusion, the question in relationship to certain behaviors is: Is it "HARMFUL"

 

Drugs: HARMFUL

 

Child Molestation: HARMFUL

 

Overeating: HARMFUL

 

Homosexuality: NOT HARMFUL

 

Solid post. I agree with all of this and it is why I believe there should be life partner tax benefits for homosexual couples just the same as there are for married couples.

 

I believe this even though I do believe that homosexuality is a sin just like adultery and many other sexual sins that are happening a lot these days.

 

It isn't the government's job to decide sin or morality issues.... but rather to serve and protect. Make the tax breaks and other laws for inheritance and such fall under the term union rather than marriage and quit discriminating against homosexual folks.

 

Churches do have the right to say whether or not they believe homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle.

 

As an individual, I believe I have planks in my eyes too big to worry about the speck in someone else's eye....

B-Ball-Fan, I'm not trying to be a jerk but we had this discussion a few months a ago and you made me promise (hyperbole) to drop the subject and not get your goat going again. You and I are on opposite sides of the universe on this topic and believe it or not I kind of like you anyway (in a friendly manly sort of way:D).

 

Thanks Khalid... I think if you met me, you'd find that I'm just a regular kind of dude.

Music can sometimes hit a nerve and express things that the spoken word cannot. Sometimes people listen to lyrics and get them, sometimes people just tap their foot and really have no idea what a song is about. I remember really loving to sit for hours watching MTV years ago and digging a lot of the songs and videos whether I immediately understood them or not. When this one song first came out by Nik Kershaw "Wouldn't it be good" I remember that it immediately hit me where I lived, and wondered how many others understood. I felt that many, like myself would, but also thought that many would think "What's he going on about"? I remember crying. This tune can still make me cry.

 

I never equated his words as wishing that he wasn't gay, but why it had to be so damned hard to be who he was in a world that couldn't accept him. How easy it would just be to be like everyone else, and how everyone else had it so easy just because they were one of the accepted norm. When this came out about 30 years ago, I thought that it was daring that he was expressing something on a topic that lots of artists were way to nervous to address, and at the same time being incredibly poignant. I also realized that it wasn't so daring, as only some people would get what he was saying anyhow. To me, this song is timeless and doesn't feel dated at all and still can very much apply today as it did when it was first released.

 

I've provided both the original video, as well as the one with just the lyrics. Watching both can help concretely help folks understand what it's about. Some may remember this song, and some may not, and since I'm presenting it here, and you have been informed ahead of watching it what it is about, then you shouldn't have any trouble understanding. If not explained ahead of watching, I'd assume some might having gotten it, and perhaps some might have not.

 

Nik Kershaw - Wouldn't It Be Good video - YouTube

 

Solid post. I agree with all of this and it is why I believe there should be life partner tax benefits for homosexual couples just the same as there are for married couples.

 

I believe this even though I do believe that homosexuality is a sin just like adultery and many other sexual sins that are happening a lot these days.

 

It isn't the government's job to decide sin or morality issues.... but rather to serve and protect. Make the tax breaks and other laws for inheritance and such fall under the term union rather than marriage and quit discriminating against homosexual folks.

 

Churches do have the right to say whether or not they believe homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle.

 

As an individual, I believe I have planks in my eyes too big to worry about the speck in someone else's eye....

 

:thumb:

Well said, Plato. I agree with everything you have stated here.

Tax breaks have always been justified by their proponents as tools to encourage behavior that is deemed beneficial to society. A very good argument can be made that every individual should be subject to the same tax policies regardless of one's behavior. A good argument cannot be made that the government should be encouraging homosexuality by granting tax breaks to people claiming to be engaging in particular sex acts that do not benefit society as a whole.

 

IMO, every one of us should pay the same flat income tax rate with no deductions - regardless of our income and regardless of our sexual preference. As long as we engage in legal behavior, the government should do nothing to influence that behavior. I do not need and do not want politicians like Obama, Reid, and Boehner deciding how I should behave within the broad confines of the law.

OK, so why do you feel as though the goal (the "gay agenda," if you will) is to "convert" everyone to being gay? I'm at a loss as to why that keeps coming up. Actually, I'm not. It's because of male vanity, and the creepy thoughts that roll through the brains of overcompensatingly straight men that every gay guy is out to bed them. Honestly, get over yourselves.

 

Ok. I took your advice and I "got over myself."

Please tell me how and where I stated that the goal of the gay agenda is to convert everyone to be gay?

 

This is what I said:

 

I do not understand why it is so important for the gay community to try to convince everyone that they are born that way.

I accept the gay lifestyle. So gay people and their supporters should accept that many of us don't think they are born that way.

 

Regarding my comment on Bball Fan's post about choices that are harmful---sure it is far fetched, but I saw some logic to it and wanted to explore it. Bball fan provided another well thought post to comment on it.

Ok. I took your advice and I "got over myself."

Please tell me how and where I stated that the goal of the gay agenda is to convert everyone to be gay?

 

This is what I said:

 

 

 

Regarding my comment on Bball Fan's post about choices that are harmful---sure it is far fetched, but I saw some logic to it and wanted to explore it. Bball fan provided another well thought post to comment on it.

 

It is incredibly important to show that homosexuality begins at during fetal development. For society, it would make it much easier for everyone to accept. Legally, it would classify homosexuals as a "protected" group and allow for greater equal protection rights.

It is incredibly important to show that homosexuality begins at during fetal development. For society, it would make it much easier for everyone to accept. Legally, it would classify homosexuals as a "protected" group and allow for greater equal protection rights.

Couldn't agree more. And to date, not there. Other than marriage, are there any rights they don't enjoy Mex? Serious question.

Edited May 13, 201313 yr by spindoc

It is incredibly important to show that homosexuality begins at during fetal development. For society, it would make it much easier for everyone to accept. Legally, it would classify homosexuals as a "protected" group and allow for greater equal protection rights.

Not all gay people agree with you on this point. Many fear that if a "gay gene" is discovered, then doctors might be asked to test for it during pregnancy and selectively abort fetuses before they are born - or that a "cure" for homosexuality might be sought.

Music can sometimes hit a nerve and express things that the spoken word cannot. Sometimes people listen to lyrics and get them, sometimes people just tap their foot and really have no idea what a song is about. I remember really loving to sit for hours watching MTV years ago and digging a lot of the songs and videos whether I immediately understood them or not. When this one song first came out by Nik Kershaw "Wouldn't it be good" I remember that it immediately hit me where I lived, and wondered how many others understood. I felt that many, like myself would, but also thought that many would think "What's he going on about"? I remember crying. This tune can still make me cry.

 

I never equated his words as wishing that he wasn't gay, but why it had to be so damned hard to be who he was in a world that couldn't accept him. How easy it would just be to be like everyone else, and how everyone else had it so easy just because they were one of the accepted norm. When this came out about 30 years ago, I thought that it was daring that he was expressing something on a topic that lots of artists were way to nervous to address, and at the same time being incredibly poignant. I also realized that it wasn't so daring, as only some people would get what he was saying anyhow. To me, this song is timeless and doesn't feel dated at all and still can very much apply today as it did when it was first released.

 

I've provided both the original video, as well as the one with just the lyrics. Watching both can help concretely help folks understand what it's about. Some may remember this song, and some may not, and since I'm presenting it here, and you have been informed ahead of watching it what it is about, then you shouldn't have any trouble understanding. If not explained ahead of watching, I'd assume some might having gotten it, and perhaps some might have not.

 

Nik Kershaw - Wouldn't It Be Good video - YouTube

 

 

Interesting take on this song. It was on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. I was a huge fan of that soundtrack. The music was not my cup of tea for the most part, but a gal I worked with got me hooked on that soundtrack. Some pretty deep songs throughout the cassette. She grew up in a rough part of town and maybe had more reasons than I realized to relate to the soundtrack?

It is incredibly important to show that homosexuality begins at during fetal development. For society, it would make it much easier for everyone to accept. Legally, it would classify homosexuals as a "protected" group and allow for greater equal protection rights.

 

Do we realize that as of now, it has never been shown? Thee has never been any proof or evidence that homosexuality begins at fetal development.