Ten months ago I rededicated my life to Christ.I go to Church three times a week,and I try to have a on going personal relationship with God every moment I live.

 

I have to say that the problem I have with being a Christian is not with sinners or unbelievers,but with other people that claim to be Christians...

The hardest part for me is when Christians don't use the love of Christ that is instilled in each and everyone of us.

 

What I find amazing is that the entire bible/Old Testament-New Testament only mentions homosexuality maybe the total of six times,but mentions Idolatry over 100 times...

Christians especially in America are the biggest Idol worshipers in the world.Sad thing is most us have no clue that our material possessions rank right up there with the relationship we have in Christ (If not More)!I too have this problem and by the grace of God I hope he will forgive me.

 

So the question I have to ask is why does something like Homosexuality get moved to the front of sins that is listed in the bible?In my opinion Christians should stop worrying about other peoples sins and try to work on their own flesh...

 

Matthew 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

 

You make good points & a particularly excellent point regarding idolatry. Christians often look at that issue & erroneously conclude that idolatry is an ancient/Old Testament problem. In reality, while we may not fashion idols with our hands, we most certainly have idols in our life--things or even people that we place on a higher pedestal than we do God. I could make the argument that idolatry is the major issue for Christians today.

 

I also agree that as Christians, we are also often times our own worst enemy. Jesus reserved his harshest words for religious people who piously looked down upon others who weren't as religiously polished as they. Jesus peeled back the layers of these folks & revealed them for who they really were: phonies....showboats...imposters.

 

I also agree (and mentioned elsewhere in this thread) that Christians have been guilty of thrusting homosexuality in the forefront, or as you stated, "moved to the front" of the sin line. Many Christians seem passionate about preventing gay marriage, all the while ignoring the breakdown of heterosexual marriage among them/us.

 

Where I disagree with you is the "stop worrying about other peoples sins" part. No question that we are to constantly improve ourselves, but in that Matthew 7 passage, Jesus commands that we remove our own plank first. Then we will see clearly and be able to "remove the speck from your brother's eye." Then later on in Matthew 7 he talks about false prophets, or people who attempt to spread a false gospel. He says those people can be identified by their fruit ("by their fruit you will recognize them"). How can we inspect another person's fruit without making some kind of judgment about them?

 

Jesus doesn't forbid judgment of any kind. He comes down on those who have major issues themselves, yet completely ignore those issues & focus on the faults of others. And he certainly doesn't want us going around making a judgment that isn't ours to make (heaven/hell). But he does ask us, when we're striving to live for him, to identify sin & call it out when necessary. “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over" (Matthew 18:15).

I don't know where you came up with the idea that this passage is from God speaking? Even you, yourself noted that is was written by some guy named Leviticus... and we consider the words of Leviticus as gold because???

 

Leviticus is the third book of the Bible & was written by Moses. It records various laws & regulations that were put in place for the Jewish people who had once been in the bondage of slavery in Egypt, but were now free thanks to God's deliverance which came through Moses. It's called Leviticus because it provides instructions for the Levites. The tribe of Levi was one of the twelve tribes of Israel & it was from this tribe that Israel selected its priests. Instructions for the Levites are found within the pages of the book.

 

Leviticus is very tedious reading & I'm not afraid to say it is the most boring book of the Bible. I know people who like it & are intrigued by it, but I'm not one of those people. However, the book is important & provides instructions about blood sacrifices, which will set the stage for Jesus' ultimate blood sacrifice. Jesus himself refers to & quotes Leviticus during his ministry.

You make good points & a particularly excellent point regarding idolatry. Christians often look at that issue & erroneously conclude that idolatry is an ancient/Old Testament problem. In reality, while we may not fashion idols with our hands, we most certainly have idols in our life--things or even people that we place on a higher pedestal than we do God. I could make the argument that idolatry is the major issue for Christians today.

 

I also agree that as Christians, we are also often times our own worst enemy. Jesus reserved his harshest words for religious people who piously looked down upon others who weren't as religiously polished as they. Jesus peeled back the layers of these folks & revealed them for who they really were: phonies....showboats...imposters.

 

I also agree (and mentioned elsewhere in this thread) that Christians have been guilty of thrusting homosexuality in the forefront, or as you stated, "moved to the front" of the sin line. Many Christians seem passionate about preventing gay marriage, all the while ignoring the breakdown of heterosexual marriage among them/us.

 

Where I disagree with you is the "stop worrying about other peoples sins" part. No question that we are to constantly improve ourselves, but in that Matthew 7 passage, Jesus commands that we remove our own plank first. Then we will see clearly and be able to "remove the speck from your brother's eye." Then later on in Matthew 7 he talks about false prophets, or people who attempt to spread a false gospel. He says those people can be identified by their fruit ("by their fruit you will recognize them"). How can we inspect another person's fruit without making some kind of judgment about them?

 

Jesus doesn't forbid judgment of any kind. He comes down on those who have major issues themselves, yet completely ignore those issues & focus on the faults of others. And he certainly doesn't want us going around making a judgment that isn't ours to make (heaven/hell). But he does ask us, when we're striving to live for him, to identify sin & call it out when necessary. “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over" (Matthew 18:15).

 

Randy,You know that I love you brother...Sounds like you are caught between a rock and a hard place...Wait a minute,maybe that's me...:lol2:

Randy,You know that I love you brother...Sounds like you are caught between a rock and a hard place...Wait a minute,maybe that's me...:lol2:

 

:lol2::thumb:

As to the born with it issue, and the twin issue, I will only add this, as I have for the duration of the argument/debates here. While I don't proclaim to be a geneticist, I doubt anyone on this board has studied it more than me, unless they work in that field full time. With that said, I could go cite a litany of issues that are common in twins, easily detected in the genetic portfolio. There are also issues that are expressed in some, not found in others. From a DNA based argument, there's never been any solid science that can determine if one is "gay" or not. Just isn't there. With twins, I'll give an example. There are cases of twins where one has Lupus and the other does not. Now, is it detectable in their code? Sure. Same with diabetes and a myriad of other issues. However, one expresses the trait and the other does not. Yet, there's nothing that can be found in the code for sexuality. Is it out there and undiscovered? Perhaps, and if there is ever solid science that shows that, I'll start the thread that says I'm wrong.

 

So, some of you claim that there's someone you've known all of their lives and they are gay. I do too. My first cousin, homosexual from an early age and he's now 50. I still say that homosexuality is an affinity. Just like folks have an affinity for chocolate, wine, spinach, whatever. It's an expression that one has the power to choose to pursue or not. I could abstain from chocolate, yet I choose not to. We make it out to be a bigger deal because it's sexuality. And it is obviously. But let's please stop and think for a moment. Whether you believe in God or not, I think we all can agree that all species have an innate drive to keep the species thriving. If homosexuality is hardwired in the species it is destined for extinction. If a species can't thrust genes into the next generation it dies. Simple logic.

^and as an addendum, if the above is true, then the comment about homosexuality being a birth defect could indeed be true if we are actually hardwired as some believe on here. And I don't view it that way at all. Trisomy 21 and other defects that are genetically borne are all a result of a "bad combination" in the mixture of 2 codes to be quite frank.

The notion that millions would "choose" a lifestyle that - recent trends notwithstanding - results in condemnation, monumentally increased risk of life-threatening disease, marriage inequality, etc. etc. etc. still astonishes me. Here's an interesting take:

 

 

 

I Didn't Choose to be Gay

 

What about the person who chooses to do drugs? Or the person that chooses to molest their children? Are they not choosing to do something that has catastrophic consequences? People make unhealthy choices everyday. I choose to not take care of my weight. I am a good thirty LBS too heavy. I should eat less and exercise more, but at this moment I choose to sit at Starbucks and sip a Latte instead. Was I born with this unhealthy decision or am I choosing something bad?

I strongly believe people are born gay. I know of a family that has three kids in their twenties, and each of them is gay/lesbian to my knowledge. Now I don't know if one acted a certain way because of the older ones. But to me that's enough evidence that there is something is switched on or off at birth as to sexual preference.

 

Would this mean that the parents are gay too? Where did the gene come from that caused this natural lifestyle?

If a species can't thrust genes into the next generation it dies. Simple logic.

 

 

 

I like thrusting your genes part ... lol

This is a great article written by Dr.Greg Boyd a pastor at Woodland Hills Church in Minneapolis MN.

This is some of the article...Click on the link for the full read...Is homosexuality a sin? ? ReKnew

 

 

Second, there is absolutely no justification for the way many Christians today make homosexuality out to be worse than other types of sin. Judging from the way certain Christian leaders have publicly crusaded against homosexuality, you’d think it was the number one sin in the Bible and the most damaging sin to society. Yet, while we have at most six verses in the Bible that mention homosexuality, we have around 3,000 passages that address greed, gluttony and the need to care for the poor. Not only this, but if there are any sins American Christians are most guilty of, they’re greed, gluttony and apathy toward the poor. And if there are any sins that demonstrably kill people, it’s these ones. Yet Christians go after gays. Why? One can’t help but suspect it might be because it’s one sin they can feel self-righteous in condemning.

 

 

Third, and closely related to this, there’s no justification for the way many Christians make homosexuality a “deal breaker” sin. That is, many seem to think that it’s impossible to be a Christian and also be gay. You can be Christian and be greedy, an overeater and never sacrifice for the poor, but you can’t be gay? You can be Christian and be divorced and remarried, gossip and judge others — all mentioned in the Bible more than homosexuality — but you can’t be gay? Why?

AA I suspect that most Christians would leave homosexuality well enough alone but for the rabid promotion of that orientation/behavior.

 

Christians are expected to allow their children to be indoctrinated in school, on tv, etc. while we would never see gluttony or greed programs in school or on tv.

I agree with Admiral, Paul constantly warns to avoid sexual perversion, and while I don't have a link, if homosexuality falls scripturally under immorality, my guess is its way down the totem pole (idol reference unintended)

What about the person who chooses to do drugs? Or the person that chooses to molest their children? Are they not choosing to do something that has catastrophic consequences? People make unhealthy choices everyday. I choose to not take care of my weight. I am a good thirty LBS too heavy. I should eat less and exercise more, but at this moment I choose to sit at Starbucks and sip a Latte instead. Was I born with this unhealthy decision or am I choosing something bad?

 

Your post brings up interesting points and makes me ponder all the different behaviors that you are mentioning here, and various thoughts about each one individually.

 

I'm not suggesting that I think that you lean one way or another with the topic, as you were just asking a question. Not sure if you were ultimately making a point about your personal beliefs, but if so I didn't detect one.

 

In this post I'd like to leave out the question of religion and just approach it more as a question of human behavior.

 

1. Drugs. It appears to be a "decision" made by someone that could be a result of various curiosities about the effects, pier pressure, social conditioning, behavioral conditioning, however when one becomes addicted it still may be a "decision", just one now that is very hard to control or resist. Ultimately, initially deciding to take drugs is something that can ultimately become very "harmful" and life threatening to the user. For the most part everyone agrees, even the drug culture, that taking drugs can ultimately be a bad and "harmful" decision and one that is very difficult to correct once addicted.

 

2. Child Molestation: This is a very difficult one. How one becomes a child molester is a puzzling question. I feel sorry for all involved. The children that are molested and the person who feels the uncontrollable urge to be one. However, just because someone has the uncontrollable urge does not mean that they can't stop from actually acting out on their urges, and since it brings "harm" to someone else, they absolutely should, no question about it. There can't be a blanket statement laid over everyone who is a child molester and why they are, but it wouldn't be surprising if they too as a child was also molested, and this ill-conditioning set them up to carry on this awful "harmful" behavior.

 

3. Overeating and lack of exercise: This all appears to boil down to a behavioral conditioning that, just as one was conditioned to overeat and not exercise, one can make a decision to do their best to recondition their behavior to eat right and work out. It is not easy for some, and in many ways food addiction is similar to drug addiction. Problem here is that we all need to eat to live, so being introduced to the stimulus of food can reactivate once more the urge to go overboard. Alcoholics and drug addicts can abstain because they don't need their drug of choice to live, however we all need to eat. Ultimately it's a decision mixed with reconditioning ones behavior, and by not trying you ultimately bring "harm" to yourself. Reconditioning takes repetition and is a very doable thing if focus is seriously taken to succeed.

 

The common thread in all these behaviors is that they bring "harm" to ones self or others.

 

As a homosexual, I can't say if I was born this way or some way through my early existence was inadvertently conditioned this way. No one ever molested me or brought "harm" my way, or forced me to be gay. I honestly can't say for sure why, but all I know that as far back as I can remember, I've always been attracted to men and not to women. I mean sexually that is, as I have many woman friends. Even before puberty, I knew that I was developing in that direction and even then I knew that society didn't accept it. The silent screams stayed inside of me until I was 20 and finally I came out about it. Until then I never told a soul and it really sucked feeling like I had no one to talk to. The only "harm" I experienced was related to bottling up my feelings because I knew that I stood that chance of ridicule, bullying, getting beat up etc etc etc... I, myself never really felt there was anything wrong or too different about me. Outside of these feelings, I was a fairly decent student, athlete, singer, and all around healthy competent person. Had issues here and there about keeping my weight down, but thankfully now I pretty much have it under control. I've been in loving fulfilling relationships which has brought much joy and happiness in my life just as straight folks experience. Nothing about it ever felt "harmful" to myself or to the person I loved (who passed away from cancer). Our love was a beautiful thing and very meaningful for both of us. Again the only "harm" had to do with society's attitudes and the annoying chore of having to skirt around that all of my life.

 

Some might say "What about AIDS?" Well, I'm sure most of you are aware that anyone can get AIDS, gay or straight, or the many various other sexually transmitted diseases that exist. That comes about with unsafe sexual habits and perhaps a promiscuous lifestyle which can happen to anyone gay or straight who is rolling the dice with their sex life. Two prominent reasons for gay male promiscuity is related to the fact that men in general are "typically" more promiscuous than woman, and since gay unity is frowned upon and typically hasn't throughout history been accepted, some men avoid one-on-one loving relationships in an attempt to hide that they are gay. If they settle with one person and are seen with that same person time and again it might make the outside world suspect that they are together, and some people are afraid of the social ramifications of having the outside world figure out that they are gay.

 

Bottom line though is that the VD factor can be shared by gay or straight, so in the topic of "harm" being done, it's up to the individual to be responsible with their sexuality. Be responsible and there is no "harm" being done.

 

So in conclusion, the question in relationship to certain behaviors is: Is it "HARMFUL"

 

Drugs: HARMFUL

 

Child Molestation: HARMFUL

 

Overeating: HARMFUL

 

Homosexuality: NOT HARMFUL

As to the born with it issue, and the twin issue, I will only add this, as I have for the duration of the argument/debates here. While I don't proclaim to be a geneticist, I doubt anyone on this board has studied it more than me, unless they work in that field full time. With that said, I could go cite a litany of issues that are common in twins, easily detected in the genetic portfolio. There are also issues that are expressed in some, not found in others. From a DNA based argument, there's never been any solid science that can determine if one is "gay" or not. Just isn't there. With twins, I'll give an example. There are cases of twins where one has Lupus and the other does not. Now, is it detectable in their code? Sure. Same with diabetes and a myriad of other issues. However, one expresses the trait and the other does not. Yet, there's nothing that can be found in the code for sexuality. Is it out there and undiscovered? Perhaps, and if there is ever solid science that shows that, I'll start the thread that says I'm wrong.

So, some of you claim that there's someone you've known all of their lives and they are gay. I do too. My first cousin, homosexual from an early age and he's now 50. I still say that homosexuality is an affinity. Just like folks have an affinity for chocolate, wine, spinach, whatever. It's an expression that one has the power to choose to pursue or not. I could abstain from chocolate, yet I choose not to. We make it out to be a bigger deal because it's sexuality. And it is obviously. But let's please stop and think for a moment. Whether you believe in God or not, I think we all can agree that all species have an innate drive to keep the species thriving. If homosexuality is hardwired in the species it is destined for extinction. If a species can't thrust genes into the next generation it dies. Simple logic.

:thumb: Well said, Spindoc, especially the bolded.

 

I'm not going to call gay people sinners, there are far worse sins IMO. I don't care what happens between 2 consenting adults. I have gay relatives who bring their partners to family functions, and we all have a great time. So I am accepting and supportive.

But I am not going to say that I believe gay people are born that way, because I do not. And I'm not going to say that they did not choose it, because I think it is a choice, in the same way as Spindoc has stated. And furthermore, I do not understand why it is so important for the gay community to try to convince everyone that they are born that way.

I accept the gay lifestyle. So gay people and their supporters should accept that many of us don't think they are born that way.

 

Second, there is absolutely no justification for the way many Christians today make homosexuality out to be worse than other types of sin. Judging from the way certain Christian leaders have publicly crusaded against homosexuality, you’d think it was the number one sin in the Bible and the most damaging sin to society. Yet, while we have at most six verses in the Bible that mention homosexuality, we have around 3,000 passages that address greed, gluttony and the need to care for the poor. Not only this, but if there are any sins American Christians are most guilty of, they’re greed, gluttony and apathy toward the poor. And if there are any sins that demonstrably kill people, it’s these ones. Yet Christians go after gays. Why? One can’t help but suspect it might be because it’s one sin they can feel self-righteous in condemning.

 

 

Third, and closely related to this, there’s no justification for the way many Christians make homosexuality a “deal breaker” sin. That is, many seem to think that it’s impossible to be a Christian and also be gay. You can be Christian and be greedy, an overeater and never sacrifice for the poor, but you can’t be gay? You can be Christian and be divorced and remarried, gossip and judge others — all mentioned in the Bible more than homosexuality — but you can’t be gay? Why?

 

I think it has something to do with the fact that society is trying to claim that homosexuality is not a sin at all. No one claims to be born greedy, a glutton, ignoring the poor, divorced, judgmental, or a gossip. Christians go after homosexuality because the world seems to be rationalizing it. If it was not homosexuality, but stealing that the world claimed to be natural and innocent, youmay see stealing as enemy #1.