Right so there are people getting freebies, and I'm saying a) if you don't have money to pay for your own coverage, you shouldn't be treated, and b) (most importantly) the government has no business telling 1) people or 2) businesses what they have to buy or offer to employees.

 

 

That is a fantasy. Sick people are going to get the medical attention they need. They do now. Regardless of how you and I may feel about that, it is the way it is and we can't do anything about it. And we are paying for that person without money's medical expenses. So we have to deal in the real world and say what is the best way to handle this. I think forcing everyone to play by the same rules and pay in to the system is the best option. That is Obamacare.

The whole maker vs taker, 47% crap has been so debunked that it's becoming birtherish to me. Very few people if any in this country pay no taxes.

 

They pay no federal income taxes.

 

I know you guys love to sit there and say "oh, they pay sales taxes and other various taxes."

 

Let's say I give you $50 and you go out and spend it on various things. Lets say I charge a 10% fee on all of the stuff you buy.

 

-So you get $45 worth of stuff for free.

-I get $5 back, so now I'm only out $45.

-You have contributed nothing, but then want to claim that you've paid $5 in taxes.

That is a fantasy. Sick people are going to get the medical attention they need. They do now. Regardless of how you and I may feel about that, it is the way it is and we can't do anything about it. And we are paying for that person without money's medical expenses. So we have to deal in the real world and say what is the best way to handle this. I think forcing everyone to play by the same rules and pay in to the system is the best option. That is Obamacare.

 

No, forcing people to buy something they don't want to is beyond stupid. Telling a private employer that they have to offer coverage to employees is even more ridiculous.

The franchises are not his.

 

Its the franchise owners who can not afford the bill.

 

Can Papa Johns corporate or Applebee's corporate afford ACA? Maybe. Can the much smaller franchises that are on much smaller margins and much more highly leveraged? Less likely. The 2 million pizzas are coming from Papa, not the franchise owners.

 

So they will cut everyone's hours to 27.9 and not provide them insurance. Then the employees will have to buy the insurance from the state exchanges - assuming their state offers an exchange and pay for it with their 27 hour a week pay. Vs. having some moderate insurance and making 40 or more hours of pay in a week. If their state has no exchange - and many will not it looks like they get the penal...oops...sorry...tax (according to the supreme court).

 

So the employees get less hours, no insurance at all and they have to pay an extra tax the following year.

 

People don't get that.

 

Papa Johns is BIG business but the franchisee is the one paying the bill....small business.

They pay no federal income taxes.

 

I know you guys love to sit there and say "oh, they pay sales taxes and other various taxes."

 

Let's say I give you $50 and you go out and spend it on various things. Lets say I charge a 10% fee on all of the stuff you buy.

 

-So you get $45 worth of stuff for free.

-I get $5 back, so now I'm only out $45.

-You have contributed nothing, but then want to claim that you've paid $5 in taxes.

 

I know you guys like to insinuate that the 47% that pay no "Federal Income Tax" do so because they don't work. They work and they make up alot of people who get below thier "Federal Income tax" burden by child credits and mortgage interest deductions. So your example falls flat when you consider these folks aren't given anything. They work for it and pay all kinds of sales taxes, property taxes, FICA, etc. They contribute all kinds of money and probably don't appreciate being called takers and freeloaders.

I know you guys like to insinuate that the 47% that pay no "Federal Income Tax" do so because they don't work. They work and they make up alot of people who get below thier "Federal Income tax" burden by child credits and mortgage interest deductions. So your example falls flat when you consider these folks aren't given anything. They work for it and pay all kinds of sales taxes, property taxes, FICA, etc. They contribute all kinds of money and probably don't appreciate being called takers and freeloaders.

 

:lol: You say that like I'm supposed to care what other people think.

 

And there is a large portion of that "47%" that don't work or work so little, they don't need any of the deductions/credits to get below the income tax threshold.

 

It's the major reason they need to abolish the IRC and tax codes and simplify the process with a "Flat" tax. That way everyone pays a portion.

Pad the bottom line now and strike while the bash Obama iron is hot.

 

I for one am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

Perhaps the AHCA is such a good thing that these employers are jumping on the bandwagon earlier than required.

I'm not a supporter of Obama. I'm not really a supporter of ObamaCare.

 

However, I don't understand how people can not want people to be able to afford care. This isn't politics. These are people's lives. I think it's a terrible idea to force small business owners to provide insurance for their employees, but as the greatest country in the world, I think Americans should be able to be treated without it destroying their lives financially.

 

As of now, people without health insurance wait until their disease is at the end of the line, show up in the ER, get admitted for several weeks, then are released. Most likely they are then prescribed a medication which they cannot afford and will not take, and then it starts all over again. Providing health care by helping get preventative care, regularly scheduled appointments, and low-cost prescriptions is likely to be under $10,000/year. Treating patients in the hospital with live-saving therapy is much more likely to get into the $100,000 range. The former is a lot more cost-effective, and I think that's the path we're going down, which is one positive about ObamaCare.

 

I don't know if America can afford ObamaCare. I know a lot of small businesses probably can't. But to say "Sorry bro, you got no money. Die" is inhumane, un-American, and just plain sick.

 

Healthcare IS a right. You will never hear a doctor say otherwise.

Be glad you have that choice!

 

Why wouldn't I have that choice?

That is a fantasy. Sick people are going to get the medical attention they need. They do now. Regardless of how you and I may feel about that, it is the way it is and we can't do anything about it. And we are paying for that person without money's medical expenses. So we have to deal in the real world and say what is the best way to handle this. I think forcing everyone to play by the same rules and pay in to the system is the best option. That is Obamacare.

 

I'm not a supporter of Obama. I'm not really a supporter of ObamaCare.

 

However, I don't understand how people can not want people to be able to afford care. This isn't politics. These are people's lives. I think it's a terrible idea to force small business owners to provide insurance for their employees, but as the greatest country in the world, I think Americans should be able to be treated without it destroying their lives financially.

 

As of now, people without health insurance wait until their disease is at the end of the line, show up in the ER, get admitted for several weeks, then are released. Most likely they are then prescribed a medication which they cannot afford and will not take, and then it starts all over again. Providing health care by helping get preventative care, regularly scheduled appointments, and low-cost prescriptions is likely to be under $10,000/year. Treating patients in the hospital with live-saving therapy is much more likely to get into the $100,000 range. The former is a lot more cost-effective, and I think that's the path we're going down, which is one positive about ObamaCare.

 

I don't know if America can afford ObamaCare. I know a lot of small businesses probably can't. But to say "Sorry bro, you got no money. Die" is inhumane, un-American, and just plain sick.

 

Healthcare IS a right. You will never hear a doctor say otherwise.

 

 

 

This is where my head is at.

:lol: You say that like I'm supposed to care what other people think.

 

And there is a large portion of that "47%" that don't work or work so little, they don't need any of the deductions/credits to get below the income tax threshold.

 

It's the major reason they need to abolish the IRC and tax codes and simplify the process with a "Flat" tax. That way everyone pays a portion.

 

I take it that you are one of the many from Kentucky that signed the petition to secede from the United States?

No, forcing people to buy something they don't want to is beyond stupid. Telling a private employer that they have to offer coverage to employees is even more ridiculous.

 

The first sentence I agree with in almost every situation. Health insurance is an exception because if they don't get it, I pay for their medical expenses as I explained above in post #61.

 

The second sentence I agree with. I don't think companies should be forced to provide coverage. If everyone is forced to have coverage, then there is no need for companies to be required to buy.

 

Obamacare needs to be adjusted. I am not 100% behind everything in it. But I am absolutely opposed to the repeal of it because we will never get anything close to it in place again. It is the framework we need to work within and keep making it better.

Random thoughts:

 

• Many franchise owners own MANY franchise units, often accross several brands
  
• Most jobs in restaurants are already part time jobs.
  
• Starbucks has been offering health insurance to part time employees who average 20 hours a week for decades
  
• When companies cannot compete because they refuse to hire employees, they will lose more than the cost of providing health insurance for their employees. I assume since so many are of the "if you can't pay for health care, then you will just have to die", the same people will agree that if employers can't compete because they won't hire, they deserve to fold.
  

That is a fantasy. Sick people are going to get the medical attention they need. They do now. Regardless of how you and I may feel about that, it is the way it is and we can't do anything about it. And we are paying for that person without money's medical expenses. So we have to deal in the real world and say what is the best way to handle this. I think forcing everyone to play by the same rules and pay in to the system is the best option. That is Obamacare.

 

No, it isn't. Look at all the people who are allowed to opt out. Everyone is certainly not going to be playing by the same rules and everyone will not have to pay in to the system. Right there is enough to send it back for a re-do.

I know you guys like to insinuate that the 47% that pay no "Federal Income Tax" do so because they don't work. They work and they make up alot of people who get below thier "Federal Income tax" burden by child credits and mortgage interest deductions. So your example falls flat when you consider these folks aren't given anything. They work for it and pay all kinds of sales taxes, property taxes, FICA, etc. They contribute all kinds of money and probably don't appreciate being called takers and freeloaders.

 

Sorry, but they are freeloaders. No other word for it. The other taxes you talk about have little to do with the cost of running the federal government and it's vast give away programs.