Diogenes

I anticipate the Stein youngster will be qb for the Rocks this year, and he will do a good job. If he plays anything like his pop (T grad) or his brother (X grad) Trinity will be fine at qb. 17 time, your observation regarding Manual is accurate. Unfortunately, District-6-3 is comprised of Butler, DuPont Manual, Pleasure Ridge Park and St. Xavier. Butler's freshmen were loaded, and the remaining three have a very real chance of coming out on top of the district.

What say you, Couch and Brohm supporters. Could your man match this Superman? He seems to have been a sort of Dickie Lyons or Michael Bush x 2 in that he did it all, and did it all very well. TigerPaw18, do I remember correctly that he once drop kicked a field goal in the NFL to win a game? Proponents of other players (and often it is our heart. not head,speaking) has your guy ever drop kicked a field goal, much less in the NFL? Can you even still do this in football? No less than Vince Lombardi said of Hornung:"Paul is tremendous down near the goal line. He's the finest man I've ever seen when he gets down there." His Notre Dame coach, Frank Leahy, said of the 6 ft. 2 in., 215 Ibs Hornung: "He runs like a mower going through grass." "And his kicking—why, when he reported to me as a freshman, he could punt 80 yds. and place-kick over the crossbar from 70 yds. out."

I have always said this is one of the most incredible sports stats I have ever seen.

footballfever, you have asked a fundamental question and an important question. So often questions of opinion elicit raging debates and the ground rules are not even understood. It is sort of like when guys debate about who is the greatest professional baseball or football or basketball player. Well, do you mean peak value, or do you mean career value? The same could be said of this question, and the posts above illustrate the myriad factors that may be taken into consideration in determining Mr. Football. Does anyone know who votes on Mr. Football? It would be interesting to receive insight from one the voters. Also, is there a set of written criteria upon which the vote is based? Below is the KHSAA list of past Mr. Football award winners: PAST MR. FOOTBALL AWARD WINNERS Player (School) College 1986 Frank Jacobs (Newport C. Cath.) Notre Dame 1987 Kurt Baber (Paducah Tilghman) Southern California 1988 Jeff Brohm (Trinity-Louisville) University of Louisville 1989 Pookie Jones (Calloway Co.) University of Kentucky 1990 Damon Hood (Warren Central) University of Kentucky 1991 Scott Russell (Evarts) Lees-McRae/Union 1992 Billy Jack Haskins (Paducah Tilghman) University of Kentucky / Rhode Island University 1993 Jeremy Simpson (Lincoln County) Cumberland College 1994 Shaun Alexander (Boone Co.) University of Alabama 1995 Tim Couch (Leslie Co.) University of Kentucky 1996 Derek Homer (Fort Knox) University of Kentucky 1997 Dennis Johnson (Harrodsburg) University of Kentucky 1998 Jared Lorenzen (Highlands) University of Kentucky 1999 Travis Atwell (Hancock County) Toledo/University of Kentucky 2000 Montrell Jones (Male) University of Tennessee 2001 Jeff Duggins (Boyle County) Alford State, NY 2002 Michael Bush (Male) University of Louisville 2003 Brian Brohm (Trinity (Louisville)) University of Louisville 2004 Curtis Pulley (Hopkinsville) University of Kentucky 2005 Micah Johnson (Ft. Campbell) University of Kentucky 2006 Douglas Beaumont (Male) University of Louisville Male has had three Mr. Footballs. Trinity and Paducah Tilghman have had two Mr. Footballs. The list purports to show the college/colleges a player attended. I believe the entry for Montrell Jones should read University of Tennessee/University of Kentucky.

Good work, jimmyref. CentreRocks, are you implying that our dear friends the KHSAA contrived the system for any other than environmentally correct, altruistic reasons? I am shocked.

Best really roll out the green/gold carpet if two of the staunchest (most staunch?) Rocks are visiting.

Well...it is difficult to imagine more pressing issues coming up than the TD tour and imprimatur of the X facilities!

Just checked the Vatican's web page. You are correct that it is a sin, but only venial.

Particularly impressive is the fact that Central is playing against top teams with far greater male enrollments. X has another difficult schedule, and Trinity has upgraded their schedule. Neither of those two shirk opponents, but each plays teams with far fewer male students. Central is stretching up. BTW, I've not reviewed Cov Cath's schedule, but it is often difficult, and they also play X this year.

As was said many years ago in a Presidential debate- "There he goes again". All this chest puffing-then the truth. One guy thought X had only 3 more titles in its history than T. Then we learn it is around 133 to 30 or so. Another guy concedes that X has a higher ACT average, but all T students have to take the test. Turns out that at least 98% of X students go on to college. Another poster wants us to be aware that the National Merit winners were gifted to start with, and X really had little to do with the number of merit scholars. (Of course, turn this around-T gets talented football players and has little to do with developing state titles-and T posters would squeal to high heavens!). Several others want us to be aware that the X athletic dominance was old timey-modern day contests no longer favor X. Oops-the past 15 years has X with about a 47-15 advantage. At long last, RockPride no longer quibbles that X has not dominated even recently-but he informs us that "St. Xavier's #1 domination is from swimming". Well...subtract swimming over the last 15 years and the results- still X with about 32 KHSAA state titles and T with about 15. Now, if you subtracted tennis, wrestling, National Merits...down to football...but then, we have already conceded that Trinity is a football school.

I was just yankin' your chain. It was a play on an exchange with RockPride long ago. Re: Four to one X advantage over T: See http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070523/NEWS0105/705231239/1060/NEWS0105 May 23, 2007. It was four to one this past year. As another example of X's academics, the X football team that lost to T in the state title game in 2005 had more National Merit scholars than the entire school of Trinity that year. As to the 100 year advantage, that is why BuddyBW and I helpfully published stats for the last 15 years, so that canard can be laid to rest. Based on the above posts, with help from Trinity alum, it appears that over the last 15 years X has about 45 KHSAA titles, T about 17. So, really, even recently T has been far behind X in overall KHSAA titles. A closer contest may be X vs. Jefferson County. Maybe someone could run that stat. Any takers?

Relax, my dear friend. As one of your brethren said earlier in the thread "What would this rivalry be without the banter?" When T supporters point out to the world over and over what a great football school T is, sometimes supporters of other schools (Male and X in this thread) take the opportunity to point out areas of their superiority. You just have to put on your big boy britches and go on. Did anyone mention yet that X had four times more National Merit Scholarship winners this year than T?

Relax, my dear friend. As one of your brethren said earlier in the thread "What would this rivalry be without the banter?" When T supporters point out to the world over and over what a great football school T is, sometimes supporters of other schools Male and X in this thread) take the opportunity to point out areas of their superiority. You just have to put on your big boy britches and go on.

Nothing nefarious, XgradROCKdad. Five years seemed too short a window, twenty five too long. Some T posters made a point of X being around much longer, so I selected a time when both schools were in their maturity. But I invite anyone to dissect the numbers over 5 or 10 or whatever increment of years. It would shed more light on the discussion. I only had time for one analysis.

I have given full credit a number of times to the fact that Trinity is a football school. Just look at Wikipedia. Notable alumni: Trinity-6 football, 1 baseball, 1 soccer. Notable alumni: X -27, including former congressmen, a leading scholar in Law and Economics, CEO's of some of the major corporations in the world, athletes, a former mayor, etc. And as I pointed out in an earlier post, in the last 15 years Trinity has won six state titles in football, while St. X has only won five. (Thank goodness for Brohm, right?)

I cannot find more than three, although the KHSAA records are not presented in an orderly manner. I can tell you that in the last 10 years X has won at least five titles in one year at least twice.

I have compiled a chart with information regarding sports successes for St. Xavier and Trinity. The chart is taken from the KHSAA website and the Wikipedia sites for St. Xavier and Trinity. I did not find any centralized repository for state championships. There are certain incomplete areas and areas that are not up-to-date. However, the topic seems to generate some interest in both Saint X and Trinity supporters, and I hope that some of you will be able to complete the chart from other sources. Several posters have pointed out that St. X is much older than Trinity. Because of this observation, I also compiled a list of state championships only in the last 15 years. It bears noting that X is the only high school in Kentucky that has won a state championship in every KHSAA sanctioned sport for males, and overall has won 133 state championships. BASEBALL All-Time- X-3 Past 15 Years X-0 All-Time T-1? Past 15 YearsT-1? BASKETBALL All Time X-4 T-0 Past 15 Years Both Schools-0 CROSS COUNTRY All Time X-16 Past 15 Years X-4 All Time T-17 Past 15 Years T-5? FOOTBALL All Time X-11 Past 15 Years X-5 All-Time T-17 Past 15 Years T-6 GOLF All Time X-16 Past 15 Years X-6 (through 2005) All-Time T-6 Past 15 Years T-1 SOCCER All-Time X-7 Past 15 Years X-5 All-Time T-2 Past 15 Years T-1 SWIMMING All Time X-43 Past 15 YearsX-15 All Time T-no records Past 15 Years T-0 TENNIS All-Time X-no records although won state this year Past 15 Years X-At Least 1? T-no records T-no records TRACK X-no records T-no records WRESTLING All-Time X-2 Past 15 Years X-2 All Time T-1 Past 15 Years T-0

T + all the schools in Jefferson County in KHSAA sports = X T + all the schools in Jefferson County in KHSAA sports in the past 10 years = X

No one ever said Trinity's academics were not fine. Trinity has 17 state football titles, X has 11. Most T fans would say T is the clear superior to X in football (65% more titles). In in the last decade X has more than doubled T in National Merits. Surely facing such overwhelming academic superiority, one would think T would be used to playing second fiddle by now. Again, no one disputes T is a football school. However, academically and in all other sports, even in the past 10 years, X sees T in the rear view mirror.

You are correct, billyrayjoebob. X overall has about three state titles for every one T has. Also, many years X has more National Merit students than all Catholic schools combined. Fortunately, not everyone measures a school by academics and overall sports. Just read the posts above. If they did, there really would be no comparison between X and T. It has been said before, and the point even made in this thread ( "and since football is king, and we are the kings of football...I imagine that we RULE") Trinity is a football school and nobody can deny it (although in head to head competition, X leads T in football). As it is sometimes said, that is why they make chocolate and vanilla. Some are ecstatic being a football school. Others may prefer academics plus overall sports.

If only the X supporters could get the Rock supporters into a discussion of National Merit winners, or overall state titles in: Basketball, swimming, tennis,baseball, cross country, track, soccer,golf, wrestling or even the overall X v. T football series. No one doubts, though, that T is a football school, and if they do, T fans are quick to remind them. Now if only T would institute a nationwide search for a physics or math instructor, as they did for a football coach, they could be much more than just a football school relative to some other schools.

Thanks, TonyDanza. CentreRocks, you stated that "I think he attended Victor Anderson's grade school". Therefore, are you claiming that he is a St Agnes alum?

And that school was?

In reference to the last great teams that have come out of the West in 4A, I believe that two Western Kentucky teams in the last three years could have won the state title. First, the 2003 Warren Central team referenced above did indeed fumble on the 1 yard line against St X. Absent that fumble, Warren Central would have prevailed in the game. As it turned out, X won 13-9. Additionally, Warren Central had a first-team all-state wide receiver who was unstoppable-Lonnell Dewalt. Unfortunately, from the Warren Central perspective, an already cold evening turned nasty with a freezing rain. That shutdown the Warren Central passing game in the second half, and in my opinion enabled St X to prevail. X lost the state title game that year 17-14. Although not always accurate, a comparative score analysis would indicate a close game had Warren Central made it to the state finals. The 2005 well coached John Hardin team was also as good as any team in the state that year. I believe that they had lost only one game going into the quarterfinals against St X. They dropped a hard-fought contest 21-20. X lost the state title game that year 14-6. Again, although not always accurate, a comparative score analysis would indicate a close game had John Hardin made it to the state title contest. Each of those teams, in my opinion, could have won the state title.

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive report. A lot of effort went into it, and the effort/report is appreciated. Now, if only my local Gannett empire newspaper put as much effort into reporting high school sports...