Diogenes

Good post, LUCK. This, gentlemen, I believe is the 1978 State Champion St. X team, 13-2 overall and a 42-21 victor over Tates Creek for the 4A title. If only heart counted in this thread, this would be a difficult squad to beat. The thread asks "Put together your schools best players of all-time. " I know a couple of the above list LUCK, and while long on heart, the talent....

Whew!!! I do not think there is another school in the state that can match that lineup. You have a lot to be proud of. Another feather in Male's cap is, I believe, the only 3 time first team all-stater's from Jefferson County attended Male (twice: Montrell Jones and Michael Bush). BTW, if memory serves, Othello Brim went to Western Kentucky where he started along with Romeo Crennel, giving Western what I considered the all-Shakespeare team.

QB-Rick Norton-Flaget, UK, Miami Dolphins. FB-Lee Bougess-Shawnee, UL, Philadelphia Eagles. LB-Joe Federspiel-DeSales, UK, New Orleans Saints. Tigercat, Dicky Lyons played for the New Orleans Saints. Lehman's first name, I think, was Bob. SHAMROCK69, we don't think you are crazy, but like many, your heart may be speaking for you. I have seen many of the players you list play, and I know some. Consider QB alone: Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Joe Namath, Jim Kelly, George Blanda, Jeff Hostetler, Dan Marino, Johhny Lujack, Don Strock...vs. Brian Brohm. Do you think that anyone other than a fellow Shamrock would see this as competitive?

He is one of the outstanding coaches in the state, and a breakout this year will end his flying under the radar.

Just based on recent history, Jefferson County schools should be favored. Two time defending champion Trinity has a lot coming back. X has solid and deep talent. Male may be a bit off their high srandards. Manual looked better than expected this year and could be a contender. I keep missing on this prediction: PRP has a lot of athletes, a lot of male students, and is very well coached.

????? 2006 X Senior record as freshmen (2003):6-4. Losses to Holy Cross and Boyle County freshmen. Blowout losses to Male and T freshmen. As seniors, rated in top 5 in state by computer and polls, much of season in top 3.??????

A banner day - I agree with CentreRocks and LSURock on the same day in the same post. I consider Jefferson County and Louisville as one and the same, and do not consider Oldham County as the same. However, in my haste I overlooked Joe Scott, and Central is definitely in Jefferson County. Although your posts are occasionally a bit cryptic, I take it that you viewed the BGP team as flawed in the manner I described?

Rant-v-To speak or write in an angry or violent manner; rave: nViolent or extravagant speech or writing. Perhaps the wrong criticism, unless you were using rant as the chiefly British "wild or uproarious merriment" and viewed my humble post in this vein. It always a concern when LSURock agrees with me (it probably worries him more ). Indeed, I refrained from attacking individual selections by design. Perhaps, though, I can offer some alternates I saw play that, IMHO, may have passed muster for all-state selection:Tim Hugley (Central); Sam Webb (Male); Dane Spoelker and Sam Robey (Trinity); Justin Collins (Western); Ronnie McDermott (Holy Cross); Maurice Coleman (Butler). No knock meant on your school or your local area NCCalum. I just point out that it is an aberration that about 25% of the team comes from about a 20 mile radius of the area that BGP is located. Your response somewhat proves my point: you stepped up to strongly defend the one player chosen, ironically, from your school.

Thanks for the work and effort that went into this endeavor. The only criticism I have is one that has been leveled at BGP football in the past - it appears geographically tilted. X, T, and Male had a total of six players. Cov Cath alone had five. Jefferson County has six players and Cov Cath., Fort Thomas, Newport Cath and Ryle have eight players. No doubt there is a very high caliber of football played at these schools, but it strains credulity to claim that there were 33% more first teamers there than at X, T, PRP, Manual, Western, Central, Holy Cross and Male combined. I am not questioning the sincerity of the voters, but this should be a lesson for all posters. I have posted several "Greatest ever" type threads (Coach, etc.) and invariably a large segment of posters select the coach, team, etc. from their favorite school or region. It goes to show that we are human. Again, thanks for the effort BGP!

Great minds...I have stated before that had he played at X he would have made a heck of a linebacker!

No, but he would have made a fine DB! As to your first sentence, we agree 100%. MERRY CHRISTMAS (Or should I say MERRY CHRISTMAS)?

Talent can be measured by first team All-Staters. During his tenure Beatty' has had thirteen 1st team All-Staters. His major competitors in 4A, X and Male, have had eight each. Coach Beatty is a good coach, but let us not delude ourselves. You don't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. BTW, the same could be said of Coach Glaser at X and Coach Redmon at Male. You do not make 1st team All-State without being a superlative athlete.

Well, what do you think? Why was Petrino 1st team All-State but not 1st team All-District?

This type of voting is perplexing. It reminds me of the basketball voting several years ago when Josh Carrier was Mr. Basketball, but was runner up as best player in his region to Patrick Sparks.

So now, perhaps a backfield with Phil Simms, Paul Hornung and Shaun Alexander. How about (Joe Jacoby Western HS grad 1977) to open holes for the runners and protect the passer?

RP, I misunderstood your use of the word "fair". That adjective has several meanings, including impartial, as I now see by your follow up that you meant, and moderately good, as I thought you meant. I was not questioning your integrity (although with matters X and T many of us have difficulty maintaining an unbiased opinion ). Instead, I questioned your expertise in assessing talent, and then only because I would question any person unless that person had a track record that I was aware of. I think Vic will have a successful college career. It is my understanding that UL shares your assessment of DB as his better position, and this was one of the factors that resulted in his lack of interest in the Cards. Both UK and WV have pursued him as a running back.

Quite a bold statement.:sssh:

You make a good counterpoint. Is it, in the end, the old nature/ nurture question? So far we have opinions from fans of the big three, but have yet to hear from other posters. Do X, T, and Male win more often than not because of a talent discrepancy or is it, as LSURock posits, the result of coaching and hard work?

Despite the adherents of each school sometimes loudly clamoring about the high caliber of each school's coaches, in light of these facts, is it time to admit what many posters have contended, that talent often plays a significant role in a team's success? During the same period, how many 1st team All-Staters has PRP or Manual or Eastern or Clark County had? Put another way, without the talent gap how many titles would the big three have? For example, subtract a Bush or a Brian Brohm. Thoughts?

Well, he certainly did from the grasp of many would be tacklers.

A cursory count of 1st team All-Staters since 1968, the year that the Big Three started dominating football in Kentucky's largest classification, shows the following number of individual 1st team All-Staters for each team: Trinity 51 St. X 38 Male 19 Surprising?

Selected State Championship Records Coach Appearances Wins Mike Yeagle 10 8 Jack Morris 9 4 Sam Harp 10 7 Mike Glaser 9 6 Ed Miracle 8 4 Dale Mueller 7 5 Chuck Smith 6 5 Bob Beatty 6 5 Dennis Lampley 5 5 Tom Duffy 4 4 Billy Hermann 3 3 Charlie Kuhn 3 3 Dave Moore 3 3 Mike Holcomb 3 3

Indeed, it was poorly handled. (The KHSAA-I'm shocked, shocked!!!!). TJ got the trophy, and later Flaget got a duplicate. As noted tongue in cheek by HHSDad, "And because of that, both schools were later disbanded and closed." Well.... crazier things have happened.

This happened in 1971 in the 3A title game in Kentucky, when Flaget and Thomas Jefferson tied 7-7 and were co-champs.

It is a tall order, but Trinity is up to it. I have confidence that Trinity will give these guys all they want and do it with class and dignity. The eyes of the state will be on Trinity on Septmber 14th. Good luck!