Interesting comments by Torre. He didn't actually say that he blew the call because there was a tag. He actually said because the ball beat the runner it should've been an out unless there were other odd circumstances.

 

That means he should've just gone through protocol and called him out because the ball beat him and ignored the fact that he may or may not have tagged him. Not a good precedence.

 

Here's his quote again:

 

Unfortunately, it appears that the call was missed, as Jerry Meals acknowledged after the game," Joe Torre, MLB's executive vice president for baseball operations, said in a statement. "Many swipe tags are not applied to the runner with solid contact, but the tag was applied and the game should have remained tied. I have spoken with Jerry, who is a hard-working, respected umpire, and no one feels worse than him. We know that this is not a product of a lack of effort."

 

 

He plainly says that the tag was applies, just not with solid contact. He also said that Meals acknowledged it after the game.

That's not what he just said on Baseball Tonight. That's also not what a former MLB ump reiterated.

That's not what he just said on Baseball Tonight. That's also not what a former MLB ump reiterated.

 

But the umpire admitted after that game that he missed the call. Torre evidently doesn't know what he thinks if he's backing away from his earlier statements.

I'll try to find Torre's quote.

Let me just say this. If this were the Reds instead of the Pirates, with the exact same circumstances ( tied for 1st), and I had stayed up all 19 innings, I no doubt would have died of a massive heart attack while yelling and screaming at the TV after such a horrendous call. :lol::lol:

Let me just say this. If this were the Reds instead of the Pirates, with the exact same circumstances ( tied for 1st), and I had stayed up all 19 innings, I no doubt would have died of a massive heart attack while yelling and screaming at the TV after such a horrendous call. :lol::lol:

 

I'm sure the double cheeseburgers in the middle of the night wouldn't have helped.......

 

That means he should've just gone through protocol and called him out because the ball beat him and ignored the fact that he may or may not have tagged him. Not a good precedence.

Isn't there already a precedence of that kind when guys are turning a double play and the defender is not always on 2nd base with the ball because they are avoiding the slide?

 

Greenberg made an interesting point earlier - drawing from what you just said - if the catcher has the ball that far in advance and the runner is short 5 feet like he was, the conclusive evidence we should really be looking for is was the runner actually safe, not was he out. Not saying I fully agree, but it was unique way of thinking about it.

 

You're out...

Isn't there already a precedence of that kind when guys are turning a double play and the defender is not always on 2nd base with the ball because they are avoiding the slide?

 

Greenberg made an interesting point earlier - drawing from what you just said - if the catcher has the ball that far in advance and the runner is short 5 feet like he was, the conclusive evidence we should really be looking for is was the runner actually safe, not was he out. Not saying I fully agree, but it was unique way of thinking about it.

 

I hear you. Most of these plays are so bang bang that I agree that they should be called out even unless he clearly misses the tag. It's almost impossible in real time to see if a runner gets in just under a tag. I'm cool with ball beats you by 5 feet you're out unless the tag is clearly missed. Heyward clearly beat a tag by Hannigan in the Atlanta series on replay, but the ball beat him so bad and the tag was good enough that the ump called him out and I understood why. I think that's why this is even worse. There's just no way you say he missed this tag unless he wiffed by a half foot and that clearly isn't the case.

Watching it and pictures it looks like he never tagged him. His reaction looked like he got tagged. In the end there's enough debate here to back the ump that the play was closer than people have given it credit in the media.

Here's the interesting thing. Two days, 70 posts in this thread, views from every angle possible and we still have debate over safe or out. But replay would have fixed this, right? We see it in the NFL. Plays are viewed and reviewed on replay and there is often still debate. I recall one of UK's games where Liggins hit what was called a 3 in the closing seconds to win a game. The first two angles on replay there was no doubt it looked like it was a two. Then they came up with a third camera angle and it was obvious that he was behind the line and it was a 3. What if they didn't have that third camera angle? I think replay is good and needed but it will not end debates over close calls. Use it on a limited basis to eliminate the obvious errors, but the less it is used the better.

Isn't there already a precedence of that kind when guys are turning a double play and the defender is not always on 2nd base with the ball because they are avoiding the slide?

 

Greenberg made an interesting point earlier - drawing from what you just said - if the catcher has the ball that far in advance and the runner is short 5 feet like he was, the conclusive evidence we should really be looking for is was the runner actually safe, not was he out. Not saying I fully agree, but it was unique way of thinking about it.

 

Yes, I meant the fact that they admitted to it.

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You're out...

 

What? :lol::lol:

What? :lol::lol:

 

He's out...no question. Umpire was ready to go home

First of all, to suggest an MLB umpire made the call because he was ready to go home is absurd. These guys are professionals that take their job extremely seriously, integrity being their #1 priority. Second, since when is a glove in front of a baserunners leg an out? No way you can tell he's tagging him there. Not possible.

 

From that pic it looks like the entire back of his glove hit the inner-thigh of the runner. If he tagged him, the edge of his glove knicked his pants. Shows us nothing.