How many classes does California have? How many does Florida have? How many in each class? Who cares?

 

The bottom line is that in football, we have classes. If we are comparing ourselves to other states, how about basketball? I believe that Kentucky is the only state that doesn't classify basketball. Since everyone else does it that way shouldn't we? I believe that 5 classes would be the best option for KY, but I think 6 is better than 4.

How many classes does California have? How many does Florida have? How many in each class? Who cares?

 

The bottom line is that in football, we have classes. If we are comparing ourselves to other states, how about basketball? I believe that Kentucky is the only state that doesn't classify basketball. Since everyone else does it that way shouldn't we? I believe that 5 classes would be the best option for KY, but I think 6 is better than 4.

 

It's about relativity and respect. If I'm talking to somebody and I hear them say they were on a Texas state championship football team, I'm more impressed than if I hear that from somebody from Kentucky. I'm still proud to be a KY state champ, but I think it's a bigger feat to be a Texas state champ. In the same vein, when national polls are comparing rankings, they (for the most part) are stuck looking at your record against schools from your state. When they see a KY school beats a top ranked KY school, it doesn't mean as much as when they see a TX school beating a top ranked TX school. It cuts down on our credit and level of respect as a state when it comes to competing on a national level.

 

And as for basketball...well I'm GLAD the basketball keeps it to one single tournament. I'm not looking to do what everyone else does...I'm looking to get our champions the credit that is due to them.

How would you divide the classes RRR?

 

Not RRR, but how about:

 

1A 0 to 237

2A 237 to 474

3A 474 to 711

4A 712 to 948

5A 949 to 1185

6A 1186 to 1420

Not RRR, but how about:

 

1A 0 to 237

2A 237 to 474

3A 474 to 711

4A 712 to 948

5A 949 to 1185

6A 1186 to 1420

 

Take these numbers and tell me the number of teams in each class?

Take these numbers and tell me the number of teams in each class?

 

If these numbers reflect boys-only, then I believe there would be 2 in 6A. Maybe a couple more from Lexington, and then Henderson County.

It's about relativity and respect. If I'm talking to somebody and I hear them say they were on a Texas state championship football team, I'm more impressed than if I hear that from somebody from Kentucky. I'm still proud to be a KY state champ, but I think it's a bigger feat to be a Texas state champ. In the same vein, when national polls are comparing rankings, they (for the most part) are stuck looking at your record against schools from your state. When they see a KY school beats a top ranked KY school, it doesn't mean as much as when they see a TX school beating a top ranked TX school. It cuts down on our credit and level of respect as a state when it comes to competing on a national level.

 

And as for basketball...well I'm GLAD the basketball keeps it to one single tournament. I'm not looking to do what everyone else does...I'm looking to get our champions the credit that is due to them.

 

Your comparing Ky football to Texas football, no wonder you can't seem to get what people are saying. I mean it doesn't matter what Ky football does, its not going to get the same respect as Texas football. Texas puts out all kinds of Division one players, Ky will never come close to that no matter what Ky does.

 

As for another earlier post you had. Do you honestly think a kid thinks about that after winning a state championship. Well there are 5 other teams who won it, so we really are not the best. That is the furthest thing from any of their minds, and should be. Six classes or not, its still a great accomplishment to win a state championship and something they can be VERY VERY proud of to say for the rest of their lives.

As for another earlier post you had. Do you honestly think a kid thinks about that after winning a state championship. Well there are 5 other teams who won it, so we really are not the best. That is the furthest thing from any of their minds, and should be. Six classes or not, its still a great accomplishment to win a state championship and something they can be VERY VERY proud of to say for the rest of their lives.

 

As I said, I am proud of my championship ring. However, I can tell you in all honestly, I remember listening to the Trinity/St. X 4A title game on the way home from Louisville in 1997, right after having won with Cov Cath, and although I was VERY proud, yes, there was a degree of disappointment for two reasons. 1) I realized that my team wasn't the team to win the state football tournament, and 2) in all reality, either of the teams playing in the game I was listening to would have likely beaten my state championship team.

It's about relativity and respect. If I'm talking to somebody and I hear them say they were on a Texas state championship football team, I'm more impressed than if I hear that from somebody from Kentucky. I'm still proud to be a KY state champ, but I think it's a bigger feat to be a Texas state champ. In the same vein, when national polls are comparing rankings, they (for the most part) are stuck looking at your record against schools from your state. When they see a KY school beats a top ranked KY school, it doesn't mean as much as when they see a TX school beating a top ranked TX school. It cuts down on our credit and level of respect as a state when it comes to competing on a national level.

 

And as for basketball...well I'm GLAD the basketball keeps it to one single tournament. I'm not looking to do what everyone else does...I'm looking to get our champions the credit that is due to them.

 

If Ky schools that win state championships don't get respect, how to you explain Highlands being nationally ranked in at least a couple of polls this year? MaxPreps and Rivals both have Highlands in the top 50 teams in the country. That's not too shabby. If, and I know it's a big if, Highlands beat Cinti X, they will go much higher. So I think you can get national respect by winning repeated/frequent championships in Ky and by scheduling and beating bigger (and sometimes out of state) schools.

 

PS: do you really think the KHSAA should consider what national polls think about Ky championships when they make these type of decisions? I do not.

Great thread for discussion.

 

Watered down, BIGTIME!

 

I would love three classes in Kentucky with about 70 schools in each class.

If Ky schools that win state championships don't get respect, how to you explain Highlands being nationally ranked in at least a couple of polls this year? MaxPreps and Rivals both have Highlands in the top 50 teams in the country. That's not too shabby. If, and I know it's a big if, Highlands beat Cinti X, they will go much higher. So I think you can get national respect by winning repeated/frequent championships in Ky and by scheduling and beating bigger (and sometimes out of state) schools.

 

PS: do you really think the KHSAA should consider what national polls think about Ky championships when they make these type of decisions? I do not.

 

I never said Kentucky football programs get no respect, I'm just saying that they could quite possibly get more respect if they didn't water down their tournament as much.

 

As far as the KHSAA's considerations are concerned, though, no, I don't think it's their job to concern themselves with national polls, but I might point out that there's a certain head coach from a certain football program in Ft. Thomas that keeps talking about shooting for a national title. (I can't find the link, but he was quoted as such on rivals.com)

 

How do you go for a national title without national recognition?

However, I ask the same question every year that this subject comes up. Who is being hurt by 6 classes instead of 4? I can think of a couple of schools who might have done better under the old system, but certainly not enough to say the system is broke.

 

As far as claiming that the championships under the six class systems are less meaningful to the teams under the new system then they were under the four class system, I say ask any of the players who have won a championship in the last couple of years and I would bet that it has absolutely no affect on how they feel.

 

I agree with FC :thumb:

 

Who is being hurt by the 6 class system? A State Champion is a State Champion in 6 classes or 4 classes. Maybe someone from Beechwood, Bell, Highlands, or Trinity can answer. Does your State Championship feel any different than when there was only 4 classes?

Do you honestly think a kid thinks about that after winning a state championship. Well there are 5 other teams who won it, so we really are not the best. That is the furthest thing from any of their minds, and should be. Six classes or not, its still a great accomplishment to win a state championship and something they can be VERY VERY proud of to say for the rest of their lives.

 

For the sake of argument, should we go to 10 classes? Would the 10 state champions be any less proud than the six we have now? Should they be?

I never said Kentucky football programs get no respect, I'm just saying that they could quite possibly get more respect if they didn't water down their tournament as much.

 

As far as the KHSAA's considerations are concerned, though, no, I don't think it's their job to concern themselves with national polls, but I might point out that there's a certain head coach from a certain football program in Ft. Thomas that keeps talking about shooting for a national title. (I can't find the link, but he was quoted as such on rivals.com)

 

How do you go for a national title without national recognition?

 

You don't need to find the link. Believe me, I've heard it/read it more than enough.

 

And maybe they could get more respect if there was only one or two classes. Kind of hard to say just how much the national ranking folks even spend figuring out how many classes a state even has. They assume that if you win a couple/several state championships back to back, you are pretty good.

 

I understand your point of it being much more of an accomplishment if there was only one class and you won the championship. No doubt about it. But there would be very, very few small schools that would make it very far, most years, in the playoffs if such was the case. I don't think that would be good for the growth, support and improvement of high school football in Ky. Great for the team that wins it all; not good for football throughout the rest of the state.

 

Personally I don't think 3 years is enough to see how the 6 classes has affected the growth and improvement of football in Ky. I don't think it has hurt it at all. I know of no school that has reported that the kids are less enthused about playing football because there are too many classes. Maybe it's only common sense that leads me to conclude the affect has been the exact opposite. Making the playoffs out of a 4 team district is of course no accomplishment at all. But there are obviously more regional champs, more semi state champs and more state champs than there was before. I'd like to believe that such accomplishments create enthusiasm for football in those schools and communities. That enthusiasm I would suspect encourages coaches and kids to work harder, for adminstrators to be more supportive and committed to football and the community to be more involved. If you know of anecdotal evidence where the movement to 6 classes has done the opposite, I'd really like to hear about it.

 

I was on the 3A state championship team back in 75 which was, I believe, the first year they went to 4 classes. Never for a moment did I think my championship meant any thing less than the championships won previously at Highlands when there were only 3 classes. No member of a prior state championship team at Highlands has ever told me my championship meant less than their's (although I'm anticipating some smarty pants to now tell me mine meant less than their's). While there may be more first round blow outs, to win a state championship you still, even with 6 classes, have to beat some very good teams.

 

If 6 is good, why not 10 someone might ask? I understand the logic and it's a fair question. It's a fine balancing test: how many are enough to be fair and how many are too much to make it too easy to win. Many folks in Ft. Thomas (including the national championship focused coach) were opposed to going to 6 classes and wanted it to remain at 4. I don't know who is right at this point and I'm not ready to say the decision was wrong.

Is there any type of process already in place within KHSAA to do an analysis of the football season to see if (in their minds at least) the 6 class system is working? How do changes - such as moving from 4 to 6 classes - come about?

You don't need to find the link. Believe me, I've heard it/read it more than enough.

 

And maybe they could get more respect if there was only one or two classes. Kind of hard to say just how much the national ranking folks even spend figuring out how many classes a state even has. They assume that if you win a couple/several state championships back to back, you are pretty good.

 

I understand your point of it being much more of an accomplishment if there was only one class and you won the championship. No doubt about it. But there would be very, very few small schools that would make it very far, most years, in the playoffs if such was the case. I don't think that would be good for the growth, support and improvement of high school football in Ky. Great for the team that wins it all; not good for football throughout the rest of the state.

 

Personally I don't think 3 years is enough to see how the 6 classes has affected the growth and improvement of football in Ky. I don't think it has hurt it at all. I know of no school that has reported that the kids are less enthused about playing football because there are too many classes. Maybe it's only common sense that leads me to conclude the affect has been the exact opposite. Making the playoffs out of a 4 team district is of course no accomplishment at all. But there are obviously more regional champs, more semi state champs and more state champs than there was before. I'd like to believe that such accomplishments create enthusiasm for football in those schools and communities. That enthusiasm I would suspect encourages coaches and kids to work harder, for adminstrators to be more supportive and committed to football and the community to be more involved. If you know of anecdotal evidence where the movement to 6 classes has done the opposite, I'd really like to hear about it.

 

I was on the 3A state championship team back in 75 which was, I believe, the first year they went to 4 classes. Never for a moment did I think my championship meant any thing less than the championships won previously at Highlands when there were only 3 classes. No member of a prior state championship team at Highlands has ever told me my championship meant less than their's (although I'm anticipating some smarty pants to now tell me mine meant less than their's). While there may be more first round blow outs, to win a state championship you still, even with 6 classes, have to beat some very good teams.

 

If 6 is good, why not 10 someone might ask? I understand the logic and it's a fair question. It's a fine balancing test: how many are enough to be fair and how many are too much to make it too easy to win. Many folks in Ft. Thomas (including the national championship focused coach) were opposed to going to 6 classes and wanted it to remain at 4. I don't know who is right at this point and I'm not ready to say the decision was wrong.

 

Now that's a VERY good post. :notworthy:

 

I can agree with you enough to say that, yes, I am definitely against the 6 class system, but yes, I definitely think that it allows for more community enthusiasm. I would be willing to argue all day that our district sizes and the number of teams making the playoffs is ridiculous, but yes, three years is not enough time to see a definite impact.