No, your knowledge is wrong on this one. That was all Ashland's AD, and I know that for a fact.

 

I am just adding to this way after the fact, but LRCW is correct. This was the AD's call not Coach Flynn.

I am just adding to this way after the fact, but LRCW is correct. This was the AD's call not Coach Flynn.

Yep. And that's the reason that the AD from what I understand has been relieved of his scheduling duties. Not exactly the champion of goodwill among the community. Good Luck to Coach Flynn. Solid coach.

Glad to hear that Coach Flynn has grabbed the bull by the horns in regards to the middle school kids. I will be interested to hear if he has these open gym formats throughout the summer.

The question "Will Mike Flynn be involved with the Middle School program?" is being answered already. He has met with the 6th, 7th, and 8th grade boys interested in bball for next season. He is supervising open gym the next 2 Saturday mornings. Two steps forward in building the program from the ground up.

 

That is nice to know, where and when are the open gyms?

Because basketball is a cut sport.You start letting parents coach and there will definately be problems. I also don't think having a junior league in Ft.Thomas would really help. There are plenty of junior basketball leagues around nky. []The issue is that more kids need to get out and play better competition. Playing in the Dayton and Newport Leagues won't cut it. Does having a Ft.Thomas Junior Baseball League equate to having a better high school team? I don't think so... JMO

 

But couldn't the same charge (ie, parents deciding who gets cut) be said about the Jr. Football League? I realize they don't cut kids on the football teams, but the parent coaches sure decide who gets to play and at what position they get to play. Furthermore, aren't the Ft. Thomas basketball and baseball leagues "no cut" teams? If so, there wouldn't be any cuts to be made by the parents acting as coaches. So that argument goes away, doesn't it? Put in mandatory playing time rules (if they are not there already) and they are not different than the Jr. Football League.

 

As for the the issue of getting more kids to play against better competition, the lack of playing against the best competition in youth football hasn't hurt Highlands football, has it? Surely the level of competition would be better if the kids played for the Red Devils, etc. and participated in that league. But we turn over a large number of kids interested in football and with decent skills to Dale and Co. each year, which as Dale will tell you is one of the critical building blocks of Highlands football. They might not have played against the best competition in N. Ky youth football, but that hasn't hurt Highlands at all. Wouldn't you agree?

 

Do you not worry about the adverse effect of deciding in the 6th grade what 10 or so kids are going to be the best basketball players when they reach high school? Heck, some very talented 6th grade basketball players will stop growing and not be near as successful in high school. Likewise, a lot of kids haven't started their real growth spurts in the 6th grade. The kid too short to make the 6th grade team may turn out to be 6'4" in high school, but may have given up on the sport because he was cut in the 6th grade. What happens when you narrow the kids down on the 6th grade and keep one or two point guards, and one of those kids stops growing and the other quits playing entirely before high school? Doesn't that result in no point guards in that class when they get to high school? I always thought it was a strength of Highlands football that the Jr. Football League was developing 3 and sometimes 4 qbs in each class that were turned over to Dale and Co to decide which would be the best high school qb for that class. Same is true for running backs, receivers, etc. Won't the inverse of that be the case if we start narrowing the best basketball players down in the 6th grade?

 

In my over 25 years plus of involvement with the Jr. Football League, I've seen countless number of kids that, if we had a "premier" team mentality, would have not been selected to play football (or would have quit due to lack of playing time). Yet because of the way the league is structured (instruction and participation first, wins second) those kids kept playing and eventually became very, very good players for Highlands. I've seen the superstar Jr. League football players stop growing and other kids passing them up by the time they hit high school. I've seen a lot of the superstars quit before high school also. Thank goodness for Highlands football that there were a lot of kids continuing to participate and getting good instruction through the 8th grade.

 

In my opinion, and it's just that, my opinion, it would be better for Flynn to get more involved in the Ft. Thomas Jr. Basketball League to make it a better league than to form a 6th grade team. With a well run league, you could provide a lot of good instruction to a lot of kids, and then turn a lot of them over to Flynn when they start high school for him to decide in the 9th grade who are the best basketball players.

 

Why hasn't the City baskeball league (and the Ft. Thomas baseball league for that matter) been more successful in developing very good high school players? In my opinion, I think a lot of it has to do with the fathers and some coaches. They want their kids to be the superstars in youth basketball and baseball, so they don't let their kids participate in the Ft. Thomas youth leagues, but rather put them in the "premier" leagues. They buy into the mentality that to be the best high school player you have to play against the best competition in the youth leagues. That might, for argument sakes, be good for certain kids, but I think it hurts the high school teams. Too many really good youth players either don't progress for various reasons or just elect not to play in high school. When that happens, there is a void in talent with no one to really fill in because kids not selected to play on the "premier" teams quit the sport and find something else to do.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I disagree with the theory that you have to play a high quality of competition in the youth leagues in order to be a very good high school player. Exhibit A in my argument is the Ft. Thomas Jr. Football League and its effect on Highlands football. I really think if the fathers quit pushing their kids to the select baseball and basketball youth leagues, but rather got involved in the Ft. Thomas basketball and baseball leagues and improved those leagues, not only could their kids and many more kids get solid instruction and lots of participation, but they improve the quality and image of those leagues, which would encourage more kids to participate in those leagues (right now from what I'm told there is a stigma that if a kid plays in those leagues the kid isn't very good, which of course discourages kids from wanting to play in those leagues).

 

If more kids, not less, were playing basketball and baseball in the youth leagues, the benefits to Highlands basketball and baseball would outweigh, in my opinion, anything "lost" by not playing against better competition in the youth leagues. Again, this is just my opinion but I see how the "let them all play as long as possible" philosophy has helped Highlands football and I've not seen anything that would lead me to conclude such wouldn't be the case in baseball and basketball.

But couldn't the same charge (ie, parents deciding who gets cut) be said about the Jr. Football League? I realize they don't cut kids on the football teams, but the parent coaches sure decide who gets to play and at what position they get to play. Furthermore, aren't the Ft. Thomas basketball and baseball leagues "no cut" teams? If so, there wouldn't be any cuts to be made by the parents acting as coaches. So that argument goes away, doesn't it? Put in mandatory playing time rules (if they are not there already) and they are not different than the Jr. Football League.

 

As for the the issue of getting more kids to play against better competition, the lack of playing against the best competition in youth football hasn't hurt Highlands football, has it? Surely the level of competition would be better if the kids played for the Red Devils, etc. and participated in that league. But we turn over a large number of kids interested in football and with decent skills to Dale and Co. each year, which as Dale will tell you is one of the critical building blocks of Highlands football. They might not have played against the best competition in N. Ky youth football, but that hasn't hurt Highlands at all. Wouldn't you agree?

 

Do you not worry about the adverse effect of deciding in the 6th grade what 10 or so kids are going to be the best basketball players when they reach high school? Heck, some very talented 6th grade basketball players will stop growing and not be near as successful in high school. Likewise, a lot of kids haven't started their real growth spurts in the 6th grade. The kid too short to make the 6th grade team may turn out to be 6'4" in high school, but may have given up on the sport because he was cut in the 6th grade. What happens when you narrow the kids down on the 6th grade and keep one or two point guards, and one of those kids stops growing and the other quits playing entirely before high school? Doesn't that result in no point guards in that class when they get to high school? I always thought it was a strength of Highlands football that the Jr. Football League was developing 3 and sometimes 4 qbs in each class that were turned over to Dale and Co to decide which would be the best high school qb for that class. Same is true for running backs, receivers, etc. Won't the inverse of that be the case if we start narrowing the best basketball players down in the 6th grade?

 

In my over 25 years plus of involvement with the Jr. Football League, I've seen countless number of kids that, if we had a "premier" team mentality, would have not been selected to play football (or would have quit due to lack of playing time). Yet because of the way the league is structured (instruction and participation first, wins second) those kids kept playing and eventually became very, very good players for Highlands. I've seen the superstar Jr. League football players stop growing and other kids passing them up by the time they hit high school. I've seen a lot of the superstars quit before high school also. Thank goodness for Highlands football that there were a lot of kids continuing to participate and getting good instruction through the 8th grade.

 

In my opinion, and it's just that, my opinion, it would be better for Flynn to get more involved in the Ft. Thomas Jr. Basketball League to make it a better league than to form a 6th grade team. With a well run league, you could provide a lot of good instruction to a lot of kids, and then turn a lot of them over to Flynn when they start high school for him to decide in the 9th grade who are the best basketball players.

 

Why hasn't the City baskeball league (and the Ft. Thomas baseball league for that matter) been more successful in developing very good high school players? In my opinion, I think a lot of it has to do with the fathers and some coaches. They want their kids to be the superstars in youth basketball and baseball, so they don't let their kids participate in the Ft. Thomas youth leagues, but rather put them in the "premier" leagues. They buy into the mentality that to be the best high school player you have to play against the best competition in the youth leagues. That might, for argument sakes, be good for certain kids, but I think it hurts the high school teams. Too many really good youth players either don't progress for various reasons or just elect not to play in high school. When that happens, there is a void in talent with no one to really fill in because kids not selected to play on the "premier" teams quit the sport and find something else to do.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I disagree with the theory that you have to play a high quality of competition in the youth leagues in order to be a very good high school player. Exhibit A in my argument is the Ft. Thomas Jr. Football League and its effect on Highlands football. I really think if the fathers quit pushing their kids to the select baseball and basketball youth leagues, but rather got involved in the Ft. Thomas basketball and baseball leagues and improved those leagues, not only could their kids and many more kids get solid instruction and lots of participation, but they improve the quality and image of those leagues, which would encourage more kids to participate in those leagues (right now from what I'm told there is a stigma that if a kid plays in those leagues the kid isn't very good, which of course discourages kids from wanting to play in those leagues).

 

If more kids, not less, were playing basketball and baseball in the youth leagues, the benefits to Highlands basketball and baseball would outweigh, in my opinion, anything "lost" by not playing against better competition in the youth leagues. Again, this is just my opinion but I see how the "let them all play as long as possible" philosophy has helped Highlands football and I've not seen anything that would lead me to conclude such wouldn't be the case in baseball and basketball.

 

You just don't get it...:isurrender:

You just don't get it...:isurrender:

 

Or you don't.:madman:

I played for Coach Flynn during his time in Bowling Green at Warren Central. While we never won a regional title under his leadership, we were very competitive in a very difficult district that included Warren East, Bowling Green and Franklin-Simpson at that particular time. Warren East was led by Tommy Compton and won two 4th region titles and Bowling Green was led by Ernie Simpson and they won another regional title. He is an excellent X's and O's coach and will push the players both on and off the court. He is a stand up guy, and if you mess up in school, YOU WILL NOT PLAY NO MATTER IF YOUR PARENTS ARE BIG BOOSTERS OR THE SON IS ALL-STATE PLAYER IN THE MAKING!!! Please believe that and best of luck to Mike and Highlands Basketball.

Anybody have any word on how the "open" gym went on Saturday?

Although I agree that some other leagues are more competitive than the Dayton and Newport leagues ... don't be so quick to discredit them ... several of recent Highlands "greats" came up through that league ... Derrick Smith, Jared Lorenzen ... several others ...

Although I agree that some other leagues are more competitive than the Dayton and Newport leagues ... don't be so quick to discredit them ... several of recent Highlands "greats" came up through that league ... Derrick Smith, Jared Lorenzen ... several others ...

 

Derek Smith and Jared Lorenzen also played Junior Pro basketball in Newport, which at that time was bigger than AAU in this area. Nothing wrong with the Newport and Dayton leagues. The real difference in my eyes between these leagues and those on the AAU circuit is the speed of the game. I think the officiating could be a little better at times, but it is a much closer simulation of the high school game than the other leagues.

Or you don't.:madman:

 

I guess the only thing I will add to this debate, is what has been in place is not really working. The complete absence of whole classes is just absurd. The new HC definetly has his work cut out for him. But from what I have heard, the few subtle things he has already done, lead me to believe he will make every effort to build the program from the ground up, and that foundation starts with the grade school kids. As far a s 6th grade team, I am in favor of that also. I don't see too much of a difference between cutting a 6 th grader opposed to a 7th grader. As it stands now, you risk losing a lot more kids at the 6th grade level. The selecting of 5 or 6 6th graders to the 7th grade team iimpacts both grades. A 7th grader cut for a 6th grader will be done. As will some of the 6th graders that aren't one of the "select" few to play up. Bad situation all the way around.

.

 

I don't see too much of a difference between cutting a 6 th grader opposed to a 7th grader. As it stands now, you risk losing a lot more kids at the 6th grade level. The selecting of 5 or 6 6th graders to the 7th grade team impacts both grades. A 7th grader cut for a 6th grader will be done. As will some of the 6th graders that aren't one of the "select" few to play up. Bad situation all the way around.

 

 

 

100% correct. This is exactly what has happened the last few years.

I guess the only thing I will add to this debate, is what has been in place is not really working. The complete absence of whole classes is just absurd. The new HC definetly has his work cut out for him. But from what I have heard, the few subtle things he has already done, lead me to believe he will make every effort to build the program from the ground up, and that foundation starts with the grade school kids. As far a s 6th grade team, I am in favor of that also. I don't see too much of a difference between cutting a 6 th grader opposed to a 7th grader. As it stands now, you risk losing a lot more kids at the 6th grade level. The selecting of 5 or 6 6th graders to the 7th grade team iimpacts both grades. A 7th grader cut for a 6th grader will be done. As will some of the 6th graders that aren't one of the "select" few to play up. Bad situation all the way around.

 

You and Raider Bird could be right, although that still doesn't address my original post which would question whether having a 6th grade middle school team (or 7th and 8th grade middle school teams for that matter) actually helps the high school program in the long run. What is so different about basketball that the strengths of running a city wide league through the 8th grade (similar to the Jr. Football League) wouldn't benefit the basketball program the way the Jr. Football League has benefitted the high school football program? I've read about the so called benefits of the selected basketball players playing against the best opposition, but from what I've observed, the lack of playing against the best football opposition, hasn't hurt the kids that played in the Jr. Football League when they became varsity football players at Highlands. Wouldn't you agree? Your son turned out to be a very good high school football player, yet he played in the Jr. Football League that emphasized participation and instruction, not quality of opposition. And I don't think there is any real argument as to whether the quality of play is better in the NKYFL than in the Ft. Thomas Jr. Football League. It is. Why is basketball different? I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to understand the difference. Me, if I was the head basketball coach at Highlands, I'd like to have as many kids as possible playing basketball in the 6th, 7th and 8th grades, as opposed to narrowing the numbers down, for the reasons stated in my original post in this thread.

 

And wouldn't a well run city basketball league through and including the 8th grade eliminate the issue that you correctly pointed out?

I don't think you have enough skilled athletes to sustain a stand alone Ft. Thomas Jr. bball league. You'd need at least 40/ grade to have 4 teams in each class. I would not favor combining grades to get to those numbers. And 4 teams would not really be enough to have a good league. Also gym time would be very difficult to come by as the grade school gyms are very lacking. Have the kids continue to play AAU, with involvement from the varsity program, ie; open gyms and clinics. gear these kids towards the middle school program that includes a 6th grade team. If you have an abundance in a grade field 2 teams. Seriously, I don't think you will have to do that. If you 12 or 13 per middle school team, then you have 36-39 kids playing in your middle school program, which is where you want to be as by the time they hit 10th grade they're optimally at 6 or 7. Then by with this formula you have an elite 6 or 7 per grade Soph, Jr. and Sr. for a max of 18-20 kids in your JV/Varsity program. You should never have a grade that is non existent, which is a program killer. As far as cuts, less kids will be cut in this system than in the current one, where there is no 6th grade team.