Who thinks Elliott County's run at state is legit?

[B-Ball-fan]

Current seniors for Holmes that were on that team in 06/07 and 07/08 as sophs and juniors are Riley, D. Johnson, and Rice. Riley played probably 5 mpg as a soph and right around 12 mpg as a junior. He was a key piece to the puzzle during Holmes region championship run last year and was the primary pg last year during the state tournament, with Avery moving over to the 2 a lot, so Holmes could have a shooter on the floor..

 

You've gotta be kidding me though, saying EC has more experience than either Scott Co or Holmes. Both senior classes have made an appearance in the state championship and have played in more sweet 16 games in ONE YEAR, than EC has in both of their trips. If anything, Holmes has more hunger for the simple fact that they've "been there, done that" and came up short in the state title game, and Scott County seniors should be hungry for another championship. Let's not forget that Holmes returns 3 starters from last year's state championship game, and Phares was a key member of that 07 state title team for SC. I'd say they both have ALOT of experience. I don't think some realize how much playing in the state championship drives a team to get back the following year.

 

I believe the EC boys have the desire and hunger to get there, but let's not overexaggerate and say they have more hunger and experience than any other team, cause that's simply not true.

 

This will be the 3rd straight trip for 4 of the 5 starters on Elloitt's team. Neither Holmes or Scott Co. can say that. Sure, their programs can boast many visits or games, but not exactly the same players. Sure, their programs are hungry, but not all the same players. My original question to you was what present seniors were on the 2007 Bulldogs team because you were commenting that this would be the seniors' 3rd trip to the Sweet 16, but I'm thinking that other than last year with Riley, the claim can't be made for the present seniors that they really have had much floor experience at Rupp like Elliott does except for pre-game warmups. Then to make it sound like the present Bulldogs team is loaded with Sweet 16 experience you threw in last years team, who aside from Henderson, was really most of the teams first time at Rupp. Before last year it was pretty much the Jefferson, Hill, Rice, Henderson show. Sure it couldn't hurt that the program is experienced and hungry, but as far as the exact players are concerned, Elliott has the edge over both Holmes and Scott Co. I believe the Holmes boys have the desire and hunger to get there, but let's not overexaggerate and say they have more hunger and experience than Elliott's team, cause that's simply not true. :ohbrother:

[Eta Rho]

This will be the 3rd straight trip for 4 of the 5 starters on Elloitt's team. Neither Holmes or Scott Co. can say that. Sure, their programs can boast many visits or games, but not exactly the same players. Sure, their programs are hungry, but not all the same players. My original question to you was what present seniors were on the 2007 Bulldogs team because you were commenting that this would be the seniors' 3rd trip to the Sweet 16, but I'm thinking that other than last year with Riley, the claim can't be made for the present seniors that they really have had much floor experience at Rupp like Elliott does except for pre-game warmups. Then to make it sound like the present Bulldogs team is loaded with Sweet 16 experience you threw in last years team, who aside from Henderson, was really most of the teams first time at Rupp. Before last year it was pretty much the Jefferson, Hill, Rice, Henderson show. Sure it couldn't hurt that the program is experienced and hungry, but as far as the exact players are concerned, Elliott has the edge over both Holmes and Scott Co. I believe the Holmes boys have the desire and hunger to get there, but let's not overexaggerate and say they have more hunger and experience than Elliott's team, cause that's simply not true. :ohbrother:

 

Didn't Maynard start over C. Knipp last year? I'm not 100% sure, but pretty positive that was the case. Sure this will be their 3rd trip, but the fact still remains that these players have only played in THREE state tournament games. How do they have more experience over Holmes OR Scott Co?

 

Riley has played in 5 total sweet 16 games.

Johnson Brothers, Pittman, and DJ have played in 4 total sweet 16 games.

 

I can understand the argument against SC because Phares was the only major contributor for that state title team as a soph, but not Holmes. How can a team whose only played in THREE games have more experience than a team whose core players have played in FOUR games? Let's not forget either that Pittman was the second most productive player last year in the state tournament OFF THE BENCH behind only Mr. Miller of Mason Co. I believe Rico was the fourth most productive player in the tourney. Again, to say this group isn't experienced is comical. This is practically the same nucleus from last year's state title run, so yea these are the same exact players. You can throw 2007 out the window and this team still has more experience than the EC boys. Last time I checked, 4 was more than 3.

[RA09]

Didn't Maynard start over C. Knipp last year? I'm not 100% sure, but pretty positive that was the case. Sure this will be their 3rd trip, but the fact still remains that these players have only played in THREE state tournament games. How do they have more experience over Holmes OR Scott Co?

 

Riley has played in 5 total sweet 16 games.

Johnson Brothers, Pittman, and DJ have played in 4 total sweet 16 games.

 

I can understand the argument against SC because Phares was the only major contributor for that state title team as a soph, but not Holmes. How can a team whose only played in THREE games have more experience than a team whose core players have played in FOUR games? Let's not forget either that Pittman was the second most productive player last year in the state tournament OFF THE BENCH behind only Mr. Miller of Mason Co. I believe Rico was the fourth most productive player in the tourney. Again, to say this group isn't experienced is comical. This is practically the same nucleus from last year's state title run, so yea these are the same exact players. You can throw 2007 out the window and this team still has more experience than the EC boys. Last time I checked, 4 was more than 3.

 

Easy Eta. I do have to agree that Holmes has more experience at Rupp than Elliott but I would say Elliott has more than Scott Co. because, other than Phares, no other players on that team has played hardly at all in Rupp. C. Knipp was the starter last year, not Maynard.

[Eta Rho]

Easy Eta. I do have to agree that Holmes has more experience at Rupp than Elliott but I would say Elliott has more than Scott Co. because, other than Phares, no other players on that team has played hardly at all in Rupp. C. Knipp was the starter last year, not Maynard.

 

My bad, just got a little ahead of myself. I too can agree that EC has more experience than Scott Co.

 

Did Maynard come off the bench last year? I seem to remember him being a big contributor for some reason?

[B-Ball-fan]

Didn't Maynard start over C. Knipp last year? I'm not 100% sure, but pretty positive that was the case. Sure this will be their 3rd trip, but the fact still remains that these players have only played in THREE state tournament games. How do they have more experience over Holmes OR Scott Co?

 

Riley has played in 5 total sweet 16 games.

Johnson Brothers, Pittman, and DJ have played in 4 total sweet 16 games.

 

I can understand the argument against SC because Phares was the only major contributor for that state title team as a soph, but not Holmes. How can a team whose only played in THREE games have more experience than a team whose core players have played in FOUR games? Let's not forget either that Pittman was the second most productive player last year in the state tournament OFF THE BENCH behind only Mr. Miller of Mason Co. I believe Rico was the fourth most productive player in the tourney. Again, to say this group isn't experienced is comical. This is practically the same nucleus from last year's state title run, so yea these are the same exact players. You can throw 2007 out the window and this team still has more experience than the EC boys. Last time I checked, 4 was more than 3.

 

Now you know that I never said that Holmes isn't experienced and I'm fully aware of who's been on that court since 2007 and that a lot of this year's team saw a tremendous amount last year. All this is excellent experience for Holmes and not a bit of it to sneeze at. I'd be very happy to be in Henley's shoes knowing that he has really helped guide this influx of talented players over the last 5 years or so (referring to his recent teams to make it to the Sweet 16, not his entire coaching career) to head a program now EXTREMELY primed for winning the Sweet 16. Other than my facination with Elliott, I deeply hope that Holmes wins this year as well. I know both can't but they're the top 2 on my list that I'd like to see do it. :thumb:

 

Now when we originally started bouncing this topic off of each other, I originally said that this core group of Elliott players will be making their 3rd trip to Rupp and that no other team including Holmes and Scott Co.(Who no doubt are experienced) can say that regardless of how many times their program has been there. A hungry experienced program means a whole lot, and as I said Holmes is PRIMED for sure. Now your calculations of the amount of games that these present player partook in equals 21 with a minuscule percentage of that experience coming in 2007 from Riley and the rest and much larger percentage coming in 2008. Still, these are not the same core guys who have been lacing up their sneakers for the past 3 years to go through the whole experience of bringing and developing their mental and physical toughness to floor at Rupp Arena as a core group of extremely instrumental starters. The exact same humans, heart and soul, flesh and bone, living the whole Sweet 16 experience. The 21 games of experience that Holmes has, happening mostly last year + none of them started in 2007 + Elliott's 12 (4 guys x 3 games) + Elliot's guys being starters + an extra year in the tourney + the same core guys building the dream and hunger together = Elliot's core players with more Rupp experience than Holmes. Now if we're talking about the Holmes program, yes they are experienced, hungry and primed with the program's many recent visits.

 

You say throw out 2007, but when you referred to 2007 you were saying how experienced and hungry these Bulldogs were and I don't think you can say these exact guys can talk much about 2007, as much as the Elliott core group starters who are the same guys, heart and soul, flesh and bone can.

 

I think we're really looking at what we are talking about from two different places. But truly if it keeps shifting to justify your points (Talk about 2007, don't talk about 2007), then I'm soon going to lose track of keeping up with how often you alter and sway, and I'll grow tired of pointing things out that closely resembles a hair splitting contest. We're probably not as far away in thought as it might seem though. I know what I'm trying to say and you know what you're trying to say, but I'm just saying that these core group of guys have been a big part of their team's experience at Rupp for 3 years and you cannot say that about the Holmes team. That's really all I'm saying.

:deadhorse: :isurrender:

[Eta Rho]

Now you know that I never said that Holmes isn't experienced and I'm fully aware of who's been on that court since 2007 and that a lot of this year's team saw a tremendous amount last year. All this is excellent experience for Holmes and not a bit of it to sneeze at. I'd be very happy to be in Henley's shoes knowing that he has really helped guide this influx of talented players over the last 5 years or so (referring to his recent teams to make it to the Sweet 16, not his entire coaching career) to head a program now EXTREMELY primed for winning the Sweet 16. Other than my facination with Elliott, I deeply hope that Holmes wins this year as well. I know both can't but they're the top 2 on my list that I'd like to see do it. :thumb:

 

Now when we originally started bouncing this topic off of each other, I originally said that this core group of Elliott players will be making their 3rd trip to Rupp and that no other team including Holmes and Scott Co.(Who no doubt are experienced) can say that regardless of how many times their program has been there. A hungry experienced program means a whole lot, and as I said Holmes is PRIMED for sure. Now your calculations of the amount of games that these present player partook in equals 21 with a minuscule percentage of that experience coming in 2007 from Riley and the rest and much larger percentage coming in 2008. Still, these are not the same core guys who have been lacing up their sneakers for the past 3 years to go through the whole experience of bringing and developing their mental and physical toughness to floor at Rupp Arena as a core group of extremely instrumental starters. The exact same humans, heart and soul, flesh and bone, living the whole Sweet 16 experience. The 21 games of experience that Holmes has, happening mostly last year + none of them started in 2007 + Elliott's 12 (4 guys x 3 games) + Elliot's guys being starters + an extra year in the tourney + the same core guys building the dream and hunger together = Elliot's core players with more Rupp experience than Holmes. Now if we're talking about the Holmes program, yes they are experienced, hungry and primed with the program's many recent visits.

 

You say throw out 2007, but when you referred to 2007 you were saying how experienced and hungry these Bulldogs were and I don't think you can say these exact guys can talk much about 2007, as much as the Elliott core group starters who are the same guys, heart and soul, flesh and bone can.

 

I think we're really looking at what we are talking about from two different places. But truly if it keeps shifting to justify your points (Talk about 2007, don't talk about 2007), then I'm soon going to lose track of keeping up with how often you alter and sway, and I'll grow tired of pointing things out that closely resembles a hair splitting contest. We're probably not as far away in thought as it might seem though. I know what I'm trying to say and you know what you're trying to say, but I'm just saying that these core group of guys have been a big part of their team's experience at Rupp for 3 years and you cannot say that about the Holmes team. That's really all I'm saying.

:deadhorse: :isurrender:

 

I understand where you're coming from. EC does have a lot of experience bein there the past two years and playing in 3 total games. But even so, wouldn't the Holmes core group from last year (Rico, Pittman, JJ, Riley) also have just as much, if not more experience considering they went deeper in the tournament and have already "been there, done that?" EC has been there, sure, but they haven't had much success there, while the group for Holmes that's back this year had a lot of success. I know that was a senior laden team with Henderson and Co, but Pittman and the Johnson Brothers combined with Riley being able to step in and run the point were biggest keys to their run last year.

 

Another variable I'd add to the experience debate is coaching. Henley is by far the better coach when it comes to preparing his team for big games, and I think the EC faithful would agree with that as well. Great coaching can make up for a lack of experience, which obviously this year's team isn't lacking either. I guess my point is, experience is nice to have but isn't a necessity.

 

This is probably an issue we'll continue to disagree on, so I personally don't feel the need to further the debate. Things will sort themselves out here in less than a month. Here's to hoping both teams will be at Rupp and one of them cuts down the nets. :thumb:

[B-Ball-fan]

I understand where you're coming from. EC does have a lot of experience bein there the past two years and playing in 3 total games. But even so, wouldn't the Holmes core group from last year (Rico, Pittman, JJ, Riley) also have just as much, if not more experience considering they went deeper in the tournament and have already "been there, done that?" EC has been there, sure, but they haven't had much success there, while the group for Holmes that's back this year had a lot of success. I know that was a senior laden team with Henderson and Co, but Pittman and the Johnson Brothers combined with Riley being able to step in and run the point were biggest keys to their run last year.

 

Another variable I'd add to the experience debate is coaching. Henley is by far the better coach when it comes to preparing his team for big games, and I think the EC faithful would agree with that as well. Great coaching can make up for a lack of experience, which obviously this year's team isn't lacking either. I guess my point is, experience is nice to have but isn't a necessity.

 

This is probably an issue we'll continue to disagree on, so I personally don't feel the need to further the debate. Things will sort themselves out here in less than a month. Here's to hoping both teams will be at Rupp and one of them cuts down the nets. :thumb:

 

Agreed :thumb: