Beshear may call a special session

[AcesFull]

They have cut everything. What else is left? EVERY CABINET CUT 6% THIS FISCAL YEAR and based on the recent revenue report they will cut even more.

 

It is not the unfavorable tax code that prevents businesses from coming here. It is the poor education system and the poor infrastructure. We are very competive in our tax incentives through the Cabinet for Economic Development, but even the former Secretary - Gene Strong knew the importance of the education system. In many of his reports to the legislature he talked about how much more money needed to be put into both K-12 and Higher Ed., but the legislature didn't listen.

 

And surely you are not blaming this budget on Beshear? The one that passed looked nothing like the one he proposed and nothing like what the House originally sent to the Senate. This is David Williams' budget pure and simple.

Did Beshear sign the budget?

[acemona]

Did Beshear sign the budget?

 

Not yet.

[ladiesbballcoach]

They have cut everything. What else is left? EVERY CABINET CUT 6% THIS FISCAL YEAR and based on the recent revenue report they will cut even more.

 

It is not the unfavorable tax code that prevents businesses from coming here. It is the poor education system and the poor infrastructure. We are very competive in our tax incentives through the Cabinet for Economic Development, but even the former Secretary - Gene Strong knew the importance of the education system. In many of his reports to the legislature he talked about how much more money needed to be put into both K-12 and Higher Ed., but the legislature didn't listen.

 

And surely you are not blaming this budget on Beshear? The one that passed looked nothing like the one he proposed and nothing like what the House originally sent to the Senate. This is David Williams' budget pure and simple.

 

I wish I could find the article but there was a state legislature who indicated that there were things they could do to restructure and increase revenues before they needed to raise taxes.

 

I read it about 2-3 weeks ago but cannot find it now.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of a state budget and probably many of us on here don't either.

 

But, my first suggestion is to get rid of many of the state educational agencies in Frankfort whose sole purpose seems to be to send forms and binders to the local schools for us to complete and go sit on a shelf somewhere.

 

I would assume if one governmental agency simply creates too much red tape, many do. Quit asking people to do things that simply creates a papertrail and red tape.

[acemona]

I wish I could find the article but there was a state legislature who indicated that there were things they could do to restructure and increase revenues before they needed to raise taxes.

 

I read it about 2-3 weeks ago but cannot find it now.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of a state budget and probably many of us on here don't either.

 

But, my first suggestion is to get rid of many of the state educational agencies in Frankfort whose sole purpose seems to be to send forms and binders to the local schools for us to complete and go sit on a shelf somewhere.

 

I would assume if one governmental agency simply creates too much red tape, many do. Quit asking people to do things that simply creates a papertrail and red tape.

 

 

They have already done that restructuring. 6000 or so people will retire this year and only about 40% will be replaced. Not only that, if someone simply leaves state government for a private sector job, the money for that position will go back to the general fund and the position not filled. They refinanced the bond debtedness to decrease the payment on the money we OWE as a state. Both of these are one time money (funny money) that they are using to finance continuing costs. It leads to big time financial problems - See Frankfort Independent School District.

 

As for the educational "agencies" in Frankfort . . . there is one - KDE. Those documents are not created by some vast bureaucracy but by a few individuals who are trying to insure that all kids are being educated. If we could hire more people they could simply come and visit and see how you were doing, and yet . . . instead they have to send paperwork for people to complete.

[ladiesbballcoach]

They have already done that restructuring. 6000 or so people will retire this year and only about 40% will be replaced. Not only that, if someone simply leaves state government for a private sector job, the money for that position will go back to the general fund and the position not filled. They refinanced the bond debtedness to decrease the payment on the money we OWE as a state. Both of these are one time money (funny money) that they are using to finance continuing costs. It leads to big time financial problems - See Frankfort Independent School District.

 

As for the educational "agencies" in Frankfort . . . there is one - KDE. Those documents are not created by some vast bureaucracy but by a few individuals who are trying to insure that all kids are being educated. If we could hire more people they could simply come and visit and see how you were doing, and yet . . . instead they have to send paperwork for people to complete.

 

Here is an easy answer.....trust the teachers. We want to teach kids. Trust us to do that instead of filling our days with paperwork assignments that does nothing to educate the kids except take TIME AWAY from educating the kids.

 

I believe that NO ONE wants to educate kids more than the local teachers.

[MoreheadEagle]

LLBC. You're right, we should trust teachers. We should also raise their pay and fund their schools so we don't lose more teachers to other states. We do that by finding more revenue. The 70 cent cigarette tax was a great idea IMO, b/c it put us on par with other states in that tax regard.

[acemona]

Here is an easy answer.....trust the teachers. We want to teach kids. Trust us to do that instead of filling our days with paperwork assignments that does nothing to educate the kids except take TIME AWAY from educating the kids.

 

I believe that NO ONE wants to educate kids more than the local teachers.

 

Based on the last statement I must assume that there are no bad teachers in the state, or bad administrators or bad schools. We are all doing great and don't need any kind of audit or anything. Hmmmm.

[AcesFull]

Based on the last statement I must assume that there are no bad teachers in the state, or bad administrators or bad schools. We are all doing great and don't need any kind of audit or anything. Hmmmm.

There are great discrepancies between the best and the worst school systems in the state even with a large Department of Education in Frankfort. What makes you so sure that cutting the size of the state bureaucracy in Frankfort would worsen the situation?

 

Freeing teachers from some of the red tape imposed by Frankfort seems reasonable to me. I trust local people to hold their own schools accountable than I do some bureaucrat in Frankfort.

[AcesFull]

LLBC. You're right, we should trust teachers. We should also raise their pay and fund their schools so we don't lose more teachers to other states. We do that by finding more revenue. The 70 cent cigarette tax was a great idea IMO, b/c it put us on par with other states in that tax regard.

Why should Kentucky's teachers be paid as much as teachers in Indiana, Ohio, and Illinois? Where would you draw the line? Should Kentucky teacher salaries be tied to those paid in California and Massachusetts?

[acemona]

Why should Kentucky's teachers be paid as much as teachers in Indiana, Ohio, and Illinois? Where would you draw the line? Should Kentucky teacher salaries be tied to those paid in California and Massachusetts?

 

Surely this is not a real question, but just an attack on the profession? The states mentioned are border states, and we continue to lose good teachers to them. We don't generally have teachers move to California and Mass., to find higher paying jobs.

[acemona]

There are great discrepancies between the best and the worst school systems in the state even with a large Department of Education in Frankfort. What makes you so sure that cutting the size of the state bureaucracy in Frankfort would worsen the situation?

 

Freeing teachers from some of the red tape imposed by Frankfort seems reasonable to me. I trust local people to hold their own schools accountable than I do some bureaucrat in Frankfort.

 

I am not aware of any red tape from which teachers need to be freed. Administrators don't even have to complete a lot so I am not completely sure where LBBC's complaints arise.

 

We have to complete a school and district improvement plan, but those are completed by SBDMs and Central Office staff. We have to align the curriculum to make sure we are teaching the proper content but all of that is planning and not really red tape.

 

Why would local communities hold their schools accountable? I graduated from Middlesboro in 1985. We had no AP classes, no math above Pre-Calculus and limited exposure to any Art/Humanities. None of that stuff was important to that community. Local people tend to their own interest which means lower taxes, etc . . . it doesn't always mean good accountability.

[AcesFull]

I am not aware of any red tape from which teachers need to be freed. Administrators don't even have to complete a lot so I am not completely sure where LBBC's complaints arise.

 

We have to complete a school and district improvement plan, but those are completed by SBDMs and Central Office staff. We have to align the curriculum to make sure we are teaching the proper content but all of that is planning and not really red tape.

 

Why would local communities hold their schools accountable? I graduated from Middlesboro in 1985. We had no AP classes, no math above Pre-Calculus and limited exposure to any Art/Humanities. None of that stuff was important to that community. Local people tend to their own interest which means lower taxes, etc . . . it doesn't always mean good accountability.

I think some people fall into the bureaucracy's trap and begin believing that people in Frankfort are smarter and care more about them than their own neighbors and that federal bureaucrats are even smarter and care even more about the quality of local education.

 

Local schools should be controlled at the minimum bureaucratic level possible to minimize overhead. If local people botch the job, then their communities will either address the problems or find better places to live.

 

One only needs to look at the quality of schools where government control is greatest and great sums of money are spent on education such as the Washington, DC schools to see how effective people with no direct stake in local school systems do at running school systems.

[AcesFull]

Surely this is not a real question, but just an attack on the profession? The states mentioned are border states, and we continue to lose good teachers to them. We don't generally have teachers move to California and Mass., to find higher paying jobs.

Yes, it is a real question. Are Kentucky schools unable to fill teaching positions because the salaries are too low? Are schools closing because qualified teachers will not work for the salaries offered? How do turnover rates in the teaching profession compare to other professions?

 

Johnson County, Kentucky is not far from West Virginia, yet I know of very few cases that teachers have been hired away from West Virginia schools, where teacher salaries are lower than Kentucky's.

 

I understand that teacher salaries in private schools are generally lower than those in public schools, yet private schools generally achieve better results with fewer resources. If Kentucky's public schools are having difficulty retaining good teachers, how do its private schools even manage to keep their doors open? Why have not all the good private school teachers in NKY headed across the border to take advantage of higher salaries?

 

So, I ask again, why should Kentucky teacher salaries be on par with those in Ohior and Indiana?

[acemona]

Yes, it is a real question. Are Kentucky schools unable to fill teaching positions because the salaries are too low? Are schools closing because qualified teachers will not work for the salaries offered? How do turnover rates in the teaching profession compare to other professions?

 

Johnson County, Kentucky is not far from West Virginia, yet I know of very few cases that teachers have been hired away from West Virginia schools, where teacher salaries are lower than Kentucky's.

 

I understand that teacher salaries in private schools are generally lower than those in public schools, yet private schools generally achieve better results with fewer resources. If Kentucky's public schools are having difficulty retaining good teachers, how do its private schools even manage to keep their doors open? Why have not all the good private school teachers in NKY headed across the border to take advantage of higher salaries?

 

So, I ask again, why should Kentucky teacher salaries be on par with those in Ohior and Indiana?

 

I am simply going to call you out on this. When socio-economic status of the students are accounted for, private schools perform no better than the public schools. Private schools do not have to attempt to educate problem children or children with disabilities. Private schools have a majority of parents who are involved in their children's education and who send them to tutors when they are falling behind. Private school children are not forced to work to help make money for necessities or to baby sit the younger siblings when their parents are working second shift.

 

How do you know where your teachers come from? How do you know that they have not interviewed in both WVA and Ky and end up choosing KY? I am betting you don't have a clue you are just making an assumption. I worked in Trimble Co. and we lost teachers to Madison In. all the time. Northern Kentucky Schools lose teachers to Ohio all the time. i would bet that not very far north from Johnson Co. people go to teach in Ohio as opposed to KY or WVA.

 

For the Record - there is a shortage of math, science, and special ed. teachers in the state of Kentucky, so yeah there are position going unfilled by qualified teachers because the pay is so low.

[AcesFull]

I am simply going to call you out on this. When socio-economic status of the students are accounted for, private schools perform no better than the public schools. Private schools do not have to attempt to educate problem children or children with disabilities. Private schools have a majority of parents who are involved in their children's education and who send them to tutors when they are falling behind. Private school children are not forced to work to help make money for necessities or to baby sit the younger siblings when their parents are working second shift.

Nothing that I have not read many times before but none of these facts and assertions explain how private schools retain good teachers when Ohio and Indiana offer much higher salaries. If these teachers believed that they are grossly underpaid, then they would not be employed in Kentucky's private schools.

How do you know where your teachers come from? How do you know that they have not interviewed in both WVA and Ky and end up choosing KY? I am betting you don't have a clue you are just making an assumption.

Because I personally knew nearly all of my children's teachers and administrators and my wife worked in the schools. I think that you are the one of making an erroneous assumption.

 

For the Record - there is a shortage of math, science, and special ed. teachers in the state of Kentucky, so yeah there are position going unfilled by qualified teachers because the pay is so low.

So, you are certain that Ohio and Indiana schools have no problems filling vacancies for math, science, and special education teachers? Or are you simply making the assumption that this situation is worse in Kentucky than north of the border?

 

(BTW, I support spending the money necessary to hire good math and science teachers and spending less money where their is an over supply of teaching specialties.)