My 2 cents:

1. I am pro-choice but personally against abortion. I think abortion is wrong but people are different and they should decide on their own what is right, wrong, acceptable and unacceptable.

 

2. gray area? how can you be pro-life & say well its okay in rape cases (its not the babies fault?). You are either pro-life or pro-choce. NO GRAY AREA. If your daughter is raped and becomes pregnant, one option may be abortion. If that answer is yes, then you shouldnt say your pro-life. NO GRAY AREA b/c peoples views and opinions are different in every case.

 

3. If abortions are "outlawed", the system does need fixed. For every 2 good foster parent there is at least 1 bad one. The process is long and tedious. parents can adopted from other countries easier than within the U.S. While everything may seem peaching for abortions to end, there will numerous problems that will arise.

 

4. If you are pro-life, then you can't support captial punishment. Life is Life whether it be a baby in the womb or a murderer.

 

5. Taking the Bible literally or figuratively?? the bible discusses killing homosexuals. do we really think in this day & time that we need to take all homosexuals and kill them?? what about people that dont believe like us? lets just kill all gays, muslims, jews, etc.

 

6. TOLERANCE!! we are all different in some form or fashion!!

 

7. We have fought for our civil liberties & if some of those are taken, I'm afraid that others will be in the future.

I think this is a reasonable correlation if for no other reason than churches speak out against abortion.

 

Churches speak out against a lot of things that members still do prior to Sunday. I'm not sure how this particular issue would be any different.

Wow. What an unbelievably bitter assumption. For the record, I know more bad people that attend church than I can shake a stick at; "darken(ing) the church doors" doesn't make you any better a person.

 

Wow, so you're saying there's a direct correlation between not going to church and having an abortion? Who knew.

 

What I'm saying is that what 81 was implying is that to prevent being looked down upon by a hypocritical "christian" in the pew next to her, that would be a likely reason to have an abortion, to prevent the condescending attitude she'd receive. My point is that I'd guess that many women who receive abortions are not "active" church folk, and I'd guess that what the saint next to her thought was the farthest thing from her mind when whe decided to abort her child. To put the blame on a hypocritical church is silly IMO. And I'd hope that there are more "bad" people at church so that they may receive help. And I assume you are including her in with the "bad people" by your quote HSSB.

The sin can be acknowledged without passing judgment and without speaking in a derogatory manner.

 

In today's mindset of this society, I am not sure it can be. ANYTHING that you would acknowledge as a sin, would be taken as you saying it is wrong. And our society does not want anything designated as wrong.

What I'm saying is that what 81 was implying is that to prevent being looked down upon by a hypocritical "christian" in the pew next to her, that would be a likely reason to have an abortion, to prevent the condescending attitude she'd receive. My point is that I'd guess that many women who receive abortions are not "active" church folk, and I'd guess that what the saint next to her thought was the farthest thing from her mind when whe decided to abort her child. To put the blame on a hypocritical church is silly IMO. And I'd hope that there are more "bad" people at church so that they may receive help. And I assume you are including her in with the "bad people" by your quote HSSB.

 

There is NO BLAME being assigned. Its all on the person having the abortion.

 

I can't make it any clearer that the PERCEPTION (and somtimes REALITY) is that the attitudes of her parishoners CONTRIBUTE to her decision. Too many people like to talk to the good talk but then they don't back it up in their words or actions.

In today's mindset of this society, I am not sure it can be. ANYTHING that you would acknowledge as a sin, would be taken as you saying it is wrong. And our society does not want anything designated as wrong.

 

Well put...this goes for a variety of issues.

My 2 cents:

1. I am pro-choice but personally against abortion. I think abortion is wrong but people are different and they should decide on their own what is right, wrong, acceptable and unacceptable.

 

2. gray area? how can you be pro-life & say well its okay in rape cases (its not the babies fault?). You are either pro-life or pro-choce. NO GRAY AREA. If your daughter is raped and becomes pregnant, one option may be abortion. If that answer is yes, then you shouldnt say your pro-life. NO GRAY AREA b/c peoples views and opinions are different in every case.

 

3. If abortions are "outlawed", the system does need fixed. For every 2 good foster parent there is at least 1 bad one. The process is long and tedious. parents can adopted from other countries easier than within the U.S. While everything may seem peaching for abortions to end, there will numerous problems that will arise.

 

4. If you are pro-life, then you can't support captial punishment. Life is Life whether it be a baby in the womb or a murderer.

 

5. Taking the Bible literally or figuratively?? the bible discusses killing homosexuals. do we really think in this day & time that we need to take all homosexuals and kill them?? what about people that dont believe like us? lets just kill all gays, muslims, jews, etc.

 

6. TOLERANCE!! we are all different in some form or fashion!!

 

7. We have fought for our civil liberties & if some of those are taken, I'm afraid that others will be in the future.

 

:thumb:

Oh my. So having an Abortion means that a person is more likely to be un-Christian? Or less of a Christian than the hypocrite that goes to Church every Sunday and is cheating on his wife every Saturday? How unbelievably offensive.

 

I can't believe the "view it my way or your less of a Christian than I am" approach. LBBC, really, it is unreal.

 

Wanted to come back to this and cshs81's posts as it has been weighing in my mind since I left for the day.

 

If I am coming to my view because of LBBC's opinion or what I want to see happening or what goes on in this warped brain of mind, I can fully agree with you that it is wrong.

 

BUT, I feel there is a huge amount of Scripture that indicates that Jesus and God will not feel that abortions are acceptable. So when I look at the Bible and it clearly states that something is not acceptable. That is a TRUTH. Not my opinion, not spindocs, or fastbreaks or any of the other posters. That is an absolute truth from Scripture.

 

And I feel comfortable that Scripture indicates that God and His Son would abhor abortion.

 

If any poster feels there is Scripture that indicates God and His Son would think abortion is okay, I would love to see it and if it has credibility, then now we call into question whether it is okay for someone to say that having an abortion is a sin.

 

I think God is clear that killing someone is bad and a sin. So, it is an absolute truth that killing someone is sinful.

 

I can look at their action and say it is sinful but I still love you and WANT you to sit in the same pew as me.

 

Well, where does that feeling that we are judging them come from them?

 

I think that answer is fairly easy. The Bible teaches that all of us have God written into our hearts and a feeling of what is right and what is wrong. The Holy Spirit's job is to convict of us our sin.

 

So when they young lady is looking down the pew and feeling she is being judged, she is. But the judging is coming from herself, more than anyone else.

 

It is that code of right and wrong written in her heart eating at her heart. It is the Holy Spirit convicting her of her sin. That absolute truth of what is is obvious in the Scripture. (again, if anyone has Scripture that they feel indicates that abortion is okay, I would love to see it.)

 

When I sin and unfortunately I do it on a daily basis, that piercing eyes that I think are out there is really the Holy Spirit convicting me of things in my life that I know that I should not be doing.

 

Please don't lose me here as this is the MOST IMPORTANT PART. IT IS VITAL, ESSENTIAL, HUGELY IMPORTANT, that the church (meaning the people in the pews) love this person despite the sin in their life. Love them as Jesus loved the young lady they wanted to stone. But loving them INCLUDES pointing out the sin in their life and telling them to sin no more.

 

And when they do sin again, BECAUSE THEY AND US ARE NOT PERFECT, you love them some more and tell them as Jesus did, to sin no more.

Isn't that what we have now with abortion legal?

 

 

And a problem that we would need to deal with, no doubt.

 

 

 

You have to be kidding me. As a society, we can't tell women to not kill their babies, but you think somehow we, as a soceity, can force them on birth control. Good try getting elected with that plan.:lol:

 

 

Not trying to get elected thank goodness! But I think you have less people against it other than the entire Catholic church. Even with birth control there is no 100% guarantee that you would not get pregnant.

Wanted to come back to this and cshs81's posts as it has been weighing in my mind since I left for the day.

 

If I am coming to my view because of LBBC's opinion or what I want to see happening or what goes on in this warped brain of mind, I can fully agree with you that it is wrong.

 

BUT, I feel there is a huge amount of Scripture that indicates that Jesus and God will not feel that abortions are acceptable. So when I look at the Bible and it clearly states that something is not acceptable. That is a TRUTH. Not my opinion, not spindocs, or fastbreaks or any of the other posters. That is an absolute truth from Scripture.

 

And I feel comfortable that Scripture indicates that God and His Son would abhor abortion.

If any poster feels there is Scripture that indicates God and His Son would think abortion is okay, I would love to see it and if it has credibility, then now we call into question whether it is okay for someone to say that having an abortion is a sin.

 

I think God is clear that killing someone is bad and a sin. So, it is an absolute truth that killing someone is sinful.

 

I can look at their action and say it is sinful but I still love you and WANT you to sit in the same pew as me.

 

Well, where does that feeling that we are judging them come from them?

 

I think that answer is fairly easy. The Bible teaches that all of us have God written into our hearts and a feeling of what is right and what is wrong. The Holy Spirit's job is to convict of us our sin.

 

So when they young lady is looking down the pew and feeling she is being judged, she is. But the judging is coming from herself, more than anyone else.

 

It is that code of right and wrong written in her heart eating at her heart. It is the Holy Spirit convicting her of her sin. That absolute truth of what is is obvious in the Scripture. (again, if anyone has Scripture that they feel indicates that abortion is okay, I would love to see it.)

 

When I sin and unfortunately I do it on a daily basis, that piercing eyes that I think are out there is really the Holy Spirit convicting me of things in my life that I know that I should not be doing.

 

Please don't lose me here as this is the MOST IMPORTANT PART. IT IS VITAL, ESSENTIAL, HUGELY IMPORTANT, that the church (meaning the people in the pews) love this person despite the sin in their life. Love them as Jesus loved the young lady they wanted to stone. But loving them INCLUDES pointing out the sin in their life and telling them to sin no more.

 

And when they do sin again, BECAUSE THEY AND US ARE NOT PERFECT, you love them some more and tell them as Jesus did, to sin no more.

 

 

I really agree with you on this whole part and hear where you are coming from LBC.

 

I guess I'm playing "devil's advocate" with you here on the bolded part.

 

Psalm 137:9

 

How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your (Babylon) little ones against the rock.

 

There is the killing of the first born in Egypt by the Angel of Death which God sent.

 

1 Samuel 15:3

 

"Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

 

Now, I'm not saying that God is saying abortion is okay because of these texts. But somewhere the Psalmist was believing that God delighted in the death of his enemies, particularly the death of the innocents.

 

The prophet Samuel said he was speaking for God that even the innocents be killed.

 

 

 

I just wanted to show you that sometimes the scriptures reveal a mystery about God's nature that I can't understand what the reasoning is. It is there and it is undeniable. We can say that it's not in the NT and be right but then again the most popular verse we have for the life in a womb is OT scripture, the same source as the above verses and stories.

 

I think abortion is wrong. I think abandoning the poor is wrong. I believe that God sent Christ into the world to show how far God's love will go to redeem anyone: the hypocrite, the abortionist, the bigot, the murderer, the liar, et al.

I really agree with you on this whole part and hear where you are coming from LBC.

 

I guess I'm playing "devil's advocate" with you here on the bolded part.

 

Psalm 137:9

 

How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your (Babylon) little ones against the rock.

 

There is the killing of the first born in Egypt by the Angel of Death which God sent.

 

1 Samuel 15:3

 

"Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

 

Now, I'm not saying that God is saying abortion is okay because of these texts. But somewhere the Psalmist was believing that God delighted in the death of his enemies, particularly the death of the innocents.

 

The prophet Samuel said he was speaking for God that even the innocents be killed.

 

 

 

I just wanted to show you that sometimes the scriptures reveal a mystery about God's nature that I can't understand what the reasoning is. It is there and it is undeniable. We can say that it's not in the NT and be right but then again the most popular verse we have for the life in a womb is OT scripture, the same source as the above verses and stories.

 

I think abortion is wrong. I think abandoning the poor is wrong. I believe that God sent Christ into the world to show how far God's love will go to redeem anyone: the hypocrite, the abortionist, the bigot, the murderer, the liar, et al.

 

The thing that really stood out to me is that the example you cite is a decision/command that God made. Abortion is a decision people make. That's the difference to me...

 

I'm not going to attempt to go any deeper into it than that, because it would be futile.

What I'm saying is that what 81 was implying is that to prevent being looked down upon by a hypocritical "christian" in the pew next to her, that would be a likely reason to have an abortion, to prevent the condescending attitude she'd receive. My point is that I'd guess that many women who receive abortions are not "active" church folk, and I'd guess that what the saint next to her thought was the farthest thing from her mind when whe decided to abort her child. To put the blame on a hypocritical church is silly IMO. And I'd hope that there are more "bad" people at church so that they may receive help. And I assume you are including her in with the "bad people" by your quote HSSB.

I can't imagine a better place for "bad people" than in church... and by church I mean absolutely real, let's be representatives of Jesus Christ kind of church... not, let's save God some effort by being judges on his behalf kind of church. :thumb:

The thing that really stood out to me is that the example you cite is a decision/command that God made. Abortion is a decision people make. That's the difference to me...

 

I'm not going to attempt to go any deeper into it than that, because it would be futile.

 

Actually I cited 3 instances, not 1.

 

If you notice the Psalmist is speaking for himself and that is not necessarily God's voice. Though you would probably say that all scripture is God Breathed.

 

I don't get your response at all. To say: "Well one is God's choice and the other is man's," confuses me. Aren't we all supposed to follow God's example, God's Word? The humans who execute the innocents are doing it on God's command.

 

LBC cites scripture, as do we all, for what we believe. He stated if there was scripture that showed that God did not care for the unborn or the innocents he would have to see it. I provided some examples.

 

While I am against abortion, I do not try to present myself as one who defends my claim by "if the Bible says it, why can't you believe it." The reason is because there are many things said and not all perfectly fit the model of your belief. I believe I cited some troubling ones for all of us.

 

I do thank you for responding to it. :thumb:

I can't imagine a better place for "bad people" than in church... and by church I mean absolutely real, let's be representatives of Jesus Christ kind of church... not, let's save God some effort by being judges on his behalf kind of church. :thumb:

 

 

I couldn't agree more with tha statement. :thumb:

Hatz those are hard Scriptures to swallow especially to those on here that want to think God is nothing but a loving God and acceptful for all.

 

The reality is that in each of your cases, those are situations in which God was speaking of the enemies of God. Hopefully, America is not the enemy of God where he would say it is okay for our unborn babies to be killed.