These church people will have to answer to God for their judgemental minds, the same as the young lady having the abortion will have to answer to God as well. She needs to do what she knows is right in her heart and what will give her a clear conscience toward God, without worrying about how others will treat her.

With that said, I do think too many people in churches are too quick to look down on others whose sins may be visible, without searching their own hearts for sins that perhaps are not quite so obvious. Still, they will have to answer to God. Your personal relationship with God is between you and God,,,not you, God and the church goers.

 

My dear mother would say that all kids make mistakes. Sometimes parents have to let them make the mistakes to grow stronger. Either way, a parent must "love the child through" the mistake.

 

Jesus himself befriended people with bad reputations and ill character.

 

 

Let those without sin throw the first stone.

 

First bolded, should she worry about how HER actions are treating others? Namely the baby whose life she is taking. I find it humorous that people so easily jump on the back of supposed judgemental people at church and how they are looking down at her. THE SAME HER that is judging that HER BABY'S LIFE holds no importance. Wow, never realized that a person's self-respect was more important than a LIFE.

 

Absolutely, parent's have to love a child no matter what. I wish more parents would and we would not need this debate. Unfortunately, too many parents value the removal of an inconvenience in their lifestyle over a baby's life.

 

And lastly, your last Scripture is one of the most non-finished quoting of Scripture stories. Did you forget the part that Jesus told the women "to sin no more?"

LBBC, if you're trying to tell me that this girl was not going to face people who talk out both sides of their mouth, we'll simply have to disagree. You can have all of the programs you want. It still comes down to a girl being made to feel welcome in the church community (and I don't count a program as being the same). Too many times, the folks in the pews sitting to your left and right (and mine) are not as loving as they proclaim.

 

I will not defend those to the left and right of her but to say CHristians are imperfect people.

 

I will ask you who is the one who has shown less love here:

 

1) the mother who just had her baby KILLED;

2) the Christians who are sitting to the left and right of her and cannot understand why she would just kill her baby?

 

Maybe they simply need time to come to terms with a person who would have their baby killed for a convenience factor.

 

While I would love to say that I would be the perfect Christian, if that lady who put her children in the car and then drove it into the lake and killed them, walked into my church, it would be EXTREMELY difficult even though I know I should, to go up to her and love her with open arms. I would want to, but realize when I think of her sons drowning, it would take me time to do that.

 

I am glad that there are better Christians out there than me that can look at a person who kills a child and think nothing wrong with that. I would struggle with it.

 

I ask you a question, known male sex-offender who molested a whole bunch of little boys sits down besides you in church. Your reaction?

I will not defend those to the left and right of her but to say CHristians are imperfect people.

 

I will ask you who is the one who has shown less love here:

 

1) the mother who just had her baby KILLED;

2) the Christians who are sitting to the left and right of her and cannot understand why she would just kill her baby?

 

Maybe they simply need time to come to terms with a person who would have their baby killed for a convenience factor.

 

While I would love to say that I would be the perfect Christian, if that lady who put her children in the car and then drove it into the lake and killed them, walked into my church, it would be EXTREMELY difficult even though I know I should, to go up to her and love her with open arms. I would want to, but realize when I think of her sons drowning, it would take me time to do that.

 

I am glad that there are better Christians out there than me that can look at a person who kills a child and think nothing wrong with that. I would struggle with it.

 

I ask you a question, known male sex-offender who molested a whole bunch of little boys sits down besides you in church. Your reaction?

 

 

The problem is with assumption #2. There is real legitimate disagreement over that.

The problem is with assumption #2. There is real legitimate disagreement over that.

 

She had a baby in her body and she stopped it from being there.

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

 

I don't think so...per his pm.

First bolded, should she worry about how HER actions are treating others? Namely the baby whose life she is taking. I find it humorous that people so easily jump on the back of supposed judgemental people at church and how they are looking down at her. THE SAME HER that is judging that HER BABY'S LIFE holds no importance. Wow, never realized that a person's self-respect was more important than a LIFE.

 

Absolutely, parent's have to love a child no matter what. I wish more parents would and we would not need this debate. Unfortunately, too many parents value the removal of an inconvenience in their lifestyle over a baby's life.

 

And lastly, your last Scripture is one of the most non-finished quoting of Scripture stories. Did you forget the part that Jesus told the women "to sin no more?"

 

I think you may have misunderstood my entire post. I was in no way defending this young lady. I merely stating that the judgemental sin of the church people is no less a sin than the abortion. Both will have to answer to God for that sin. I do not condone abortion as a method of birth control or as a convenience to the parents.

 

And my apologies for not finishing the scripture completely. "Go and sin no more" is the most important message in that scripture.

I think you may have misunderstood my entire post. I was in no way defending this young lady. I merely stating that the judgemental sin of the church people is no less a sin than the abortion. Both will have to answer to God for that sin. I do not condone abortion as a method of birth control or as a convenience to the parents.

 

And my apologies for not finishing the scripture completely. "Go and sin no more" is the most important message in that scripture.

 

I agree 100% with your entire post. But a point I was trying to lead to. People throw huge boulders at the church people who are casting stones and expecting them to be perfect. Both need to stop casting stones and sin no more.

 

If it is wrong for the church people to look down at the young lady, it is wrong for her to take her baby's life.

So it is acceptable to you that over 3500 babies EVERY DAY, let me repeat that, over 3 thousand 5 hundred babies, every day are killed, while we complete the plumbing in the house?

 

Just to point out in ONE DAY a comparable number of babies are killed than Americans who have been killed in Iraq over the past years of the war.

 

And yet, I don't see any Democrats horrified about that.

I haven't read the rest of the thread but I wanted to respond to this point.

 

Have you considered the ramifications of adding 1,200,000 new children into our society every year.

 

Some where down the line pro-lifers need to acknowledge the practical issues created by the principal stance that they hold.

 

We have turned the corner of where our civilizations "need" more people. Our moral stances, in which our desire for the addition of persons exist, are no longer supported by the practical incentives that it (increasing the population) once provided.

 

While I can clearly understand how viewing the statistic is horrifying, but at the same time we have to acknowledge what the alternative provides. Sometimes the alternative can be just as horrifying if you at situations were overpopulation is already occurring.

I haven't read the rest of the thread but I wanted to respond to this point.

 

Have you considered the ramifications of adding 1,200,000 new children into our society every year.

 

Some where down the line pro-lifers need to acknowledge the practical issues created by the principal stance that they hold.

 

We have turned the corner of where our civilizations "need" more people. Our moral stances, in which our desire for the addition of persons exist, are no longer supported by the practical incentives that it (increasing the population) once provided.

 

While I can clearly understand how viewing the statistic is horrifying, but at the same time we have to acknowledge what the alternative provides. Sometimes the alternative can be just as horrifying if you at situations were overpopulation is already occurring.

 

If we're worried about having room, why not just kill off all the elderly....They've lived the longest and will most likely die soonest anyways...

I haven't read the rest of the thread but I wanted to respond to this point.

 

Have you considered the ramifications of adding 1,200,000 new children into our society every year.

 

Some where down the line pro-lifers need to acknowledge the practical issues created by the principal stance that they hold.

 

We have turned the corner of where our civilizations "need" more people. Our moral stances, in which our desire for the addition of persons exist, are no longer supported by the practical incentives that it (increasing the population) once provided.

 

While I can clearly understand how viewing the statistic is horrifying, but at the same time we have to acknowledge what the alternative provides. Sometimes the alternative can be just as horrifying if you at situations were overpopulation is already occurring.

 

If you had read the rest of either this thread or the other thread, than you would know that I stated that this has to come with a plan and addressing issue of poverty, children on welfare etc. And why I like Mike Huckabee because he looks at it the same way (there is the obligatory Huckabee reference, dad:D). You cannot just ban abortion without overhauling the social programs that address poverty, children healthcare. AND THAT IS NOT ONLY A GOVERNMENT ISSUE. BUT, an issue that the churches in this country need to STEP UP and take the role of providing for the welfare of those in need that JESUS CALLS us to do.

 

Too much of the time, the churches are equally guilty of waiting for the government to do it. I don't recall Jesus commissioning the local government to be in charge of those less fortunate but the Churches.

 

But let's look at your point. If we want to say that it is better for our civilization and the strain economically it would put on it, well let's just really put our economics in good shape by killing everyone over 65 and solving that dreaded Social Security issue facing us.:eek:

 

As I said earlier in this thread or the other, you guys can vote your pocketbook if you like, I am not.

 

But let's look at your point. If we want to say that it is better for our civilization and the strain economically it would put on it, well let's just really put our economics in good shape by killing everyone over 65 and solving that dreaded Social Security issue facing us.:eek:

 

 

Jinx...

Jinx...

 

I owe you a Coke.:thumb::lol:

I will not defend those to the left and right of her but to say CHristians are imperfect people.

 

I will ask you who is the one who has shown less love here:

 

1) the mother who just had her baby KILLED;

2) the Christians who are sitting to the left and right of her and cannot understand why she would just kill her baby?

 

Maybe they simply need time to come to terms with a person who would have their baby killed for a convenience factor.

 

While I would love to say that I would be the perfect Christian, if that lady who put her children in the car and then drove it into the lake and killed them, walked into my church, it would be EXTREMELY difficult even though I know I should, to go up to her and love her with open arms. I would want to, but realize when I think of her sons drowning, it would take me time to do that.

 

I am glad that there are better Christians out there than me that can look at a person who kills a child and think nothing wrong with that. I would struggle with it.

 

I ask you a question, known male sex-offender who molested a whole bunch of little boys sits down besides you in church. Your reaction?

 

You've missed my original point. Those to the left and right influenced her because of how they would react to her if she was pregnant and unmarried. That was my original point. We as a Christian community need to do a lot more loving and lot less judgment passing. No where did anyone say that her having an abortion is acceptable. Those that talk out of both sides of their mouth sometimes DO influence her decision, irrational as it is, to have the abortion INSTEAD of having to deal with her parishoners who forget to be humble.

 

To your last question: If the offender has served his time, what should my reaction be? Should I ask him to leave? Should I get up and walk away? Should we compare sins to see who is the better Christian?

 

BTW, I'll assume you simply overlooked my posts asking if abortion should be criminalized and, if so, to what extent?

The problem is with assumption #2. There is real legitimate disagreement over that.

 

How can it truly be a legitimate disagreement when she has chosen to end a life? It is not just a non-living blob of tissue. Improving ultrasonic equipment is revealing this to be a fact that cannot be refuted. She chose to kill an innoncent BABY---- what happened to the rights of this unborn child?

How can it truly be a legitimate disagreement when she has chosen to end a life? It is not just a non-living blob of tissue. Improving ultrasonic equipment is revealing this to be a fact that cannot be refuted. She chose to kill an innoncent BABY---- what happened to the rights of this unborn child?

 

And yet, 60% + of the American people support the right to choose. Obviously they do not agree that it is murder. 60% of the American people do not support murder.

 

It is a legitimate disagreement.