If we're worried about having room, why not just kill off all the elderly....They've lived the longest and will most likely die soonest anyways...

It isn't about what we should do to fix any demographic issues that we might have, but rather than to be cognizant of the results of such actions.

Hopefully, you find the term "Pro-choice" equally offensive. Let's call it what it is "Pro-abortion,"

 

Not to step out in front of a runaway train, and I'm not sure if you were being sincere or embellishing to prove a point in your debate, but I 100% do not think the terms "Pro Choice" and "Pro Abortion" are synonomous. I don't think anyone is "Pro Abortion", per se. I believe that most of the "Pro Choice" folk just believe there are a select few times that Abortion is a viable (yet obviously unfortunate [yes, I know that last word is going to get me hung in here]) alternative. Rape, incest, health of the mother, etc.

 

My 2 cents...

And yet, 60% + of the American people support the right to choose. Obviously they do not agree that it is murder. 60% of the American people do not support murder.

 

It is a legitimate disagreement.

 

Gallup didn't do a poll but a good portion of America felt slavery was right, too. Was that a legitimate disagreement or were those who felt that blacks were inferior and it was okay to hold them in slavery, WRONG?

Not to step out in front of a runaway train, and I'm not sure if you were being sincere or embellishing to prove a point in your debate, but I 100% do not think the terms "Pro Choice" and "Pro Abortion" are synonomous. I don't think anyone is "Pro Abortion", per se. I believe that most of the "Pro Choice" folk just believe there are a select few times that Abortion is a viable (yet obviously unfortunate [yes, I know that last word is going to get me hung in here]) alternative. Rape, incest, health of the mother, etc.

 

My 2 cents...

As has been discussed in other posts, somewhere between 2,000 and 3.500 (depending on the time span included) innocent lives are snuffed out each day in this country by abortion. These occasions are not a "select few" times.

 

There are many, many people in this country who are very much "pro-abortion" and have no problem with abortion being used as birth control for irresponsible people who place no value on the innocent lives that they discard.

You've missed my original point. Those to the left and right influenced her because of how they would react to her if she was pregnant and unmarried. That was my original point. We as a Christian community need to do a lot more loving and lot less judgment passing. No where did anyone say that her having an abortion is acceptable. Those that talk out of both sides of their mouth sometimes DO influence her decision, irrational as it is, to have the abortion INSTEAD of having to deal with her parishoners who forget to be humble.

 

To your last question: If the offender has served his time, what should my reaction be? Should I ask him to leave? Should I get up and walk away? Should we compare sins to see who is the better Christian?

 

BTW, I'll assume you simply overlooked my posts asking if abortion should be criminalized and, if so, to what extent?

 

So, are people fat today because of their overeating or that McDonald's makes food so tasty? Are people dying of lung cancer because of their choices or cigarette companies making cigarettes?

 

If you make something illegal, the logical assumption is that it is a crime to commit it. Doctors should get their license revoked, permanently and have serious prison time. Females, I could see counseling, probation, maybe a period of house arrest for time that they are not at work. 2nd offense, jail time.

 

I should love that person sitting beside me, no matter their sin. But wouldn't it be hard to love the child sex offender? But if the church people looked down the nose to that person, we won't feel so bad for them. And yet, is a person who takes the life of a baby better than the life of a child sex predator?

There are many, many people in this country who are very much "pro-abortion" and have no problem with abortion being used as birth control for irresponsible people who place no value on the innocent lives that they discard.

 

Perhaps that is true, although I don't think I know ANYONE who thinks abortion should be used as a birth control. However, assuming that these people exist (whether or not there are many, many I surely can't say), I still don't think it is fair to use "Pro Choice" and "Pro Abortion" synonomously.

Not to step out in front of a runaway train, and I'm not sure if you were being sincere or embellishing to prove a point in your debate, but I 100% do not think the terms "Pro Choice" and "Pro Abortion" are synonomous. I don't think anyone is "Pro Abortion", per se. I believe that most of the "Pro Choice" folk just believe there are a select few times that Abortion is a viable (yet obviously unfortunate [yes, I know that last word is going to get me hung in here]) alternative. Rape, incest, health of the mother, etc.

 

My 2 cents...

 

I believe it was HHSDAD that somewhere posted stats that should the incidents that you mentioned were below 3-5% of the time. 3,500 abortions a day means that about 3,325 babies are aborted EACH AND EVERY DAY for convenience sake. And this country says it is acceptable to kill 3,300 babies every day for the sake of not inconveniencing a person's lifestyle.

 

And you can have the argument all you want about being pro-choice but not pro-abortion but if you allow it, you are condoning it. Think Marvin and Chad's actions. He might not like it but he continues to allow it to go on and he is condoning it.

Perhaps that is true, although I don't think I know ANYONE who thinks abortion should be used as a birth control. However, assuming that these people exist (whether or not there are many, many I surely can't say), I still don't think it is fair to use "Pro Choice" and "Pro Abortion" synonomously.

... and I don't think that it is fair that those who support abortion rights to use the euphemism "Pro-choice" to refer to a procedure that destroys hundreds of thousands of innocent human lives every year in the US alone. If everybody used responsible birth control before pregnancies occurred, abortions would be relatively rare, but that is not the case.

 

I am not sure how one can look at the staggering number of daily abortions and conclude that it is not commonly used for birth control. Abortion is the ultimate birth control. Instead of preemptively reducing the possibility of pregnancy, abortion negates the high probability of the birth of a healthy human baby.

I am not sure how one can look at the staggering number of daily abortions and conclude that it is not commonly used for birth control.

 

I'm not saying that all of the abortions conducted are for the reasons that I condone (LBBC's word). I've not said that anywhere. However, if over-turning Roe v. Wade means that abortion can't be performed for any reason than I'm darn sure not for that either.

I'm not saying that all of the abortions conducted are for the reasons that I condone (LBBC's word). I've not said that anywhere. However, if over-turning Roe v. Wade means that abortion can't be performed for any reason than I'm darn sure not for that either.

 

I do struggle with this and where that line is. That I don't know. I don't think you plan an abortion in the theory that the mother's life is endanger, but when she is on the table and dying, what do you do then? That point and where I stand, I don't know. Both lives are important.

Perhaps, then, the prudent thing to do would be to avoid having sex outside of wedlock.

C'mon Hearsay, that's having the plumbing off to avoid a leak, not halfway finished with the water on. That's never an option with the pro-choicers. And talk about double talk from a political party. What I don't understand is this, if you are pro abortion (and please don't sugarcoat it by calling it pro-choice) wouldn't that ease your hardline stance on increasing taxes to provide "social programs"? Wouldn't it over time essentially reduce the # of people who would need social programs? If that's true, then I agree with the Professor, seems like buying votes to me.

 

And FWIW, I agree with Jesse James, I think that gooch may be aligning himself in the wrong profession.

If you make something illegal, the logical assumption is that it is a crime to commit it. Doctors should get their license revoked, permanently and have serious prison time. Females, I could see counseling, probation, maybe a period of house arrest for time that they are not at work. 2nd offense, jail time.

 

Do you equate abortion with murder in that a life was taken?

 

I should love that person sitting beside me, no matter their sin. But wouldn't it be hard to love the child sex offender? But if the church people looked down the nose to that person, we won't feel so bad for them. And yet, is a person who takes the life of a baby better than the life of a child sex predator?

 

LBBC, take a breath and re-read again my original point. Some girls feel that abortion is an option because they KNOW that those in the pews WILL look down their collective noses at them IF they were pregnant and single. You keep changing it to AFTER they have an abortion but that's not my point.

 

You know the bible better than I. Isn't there a passage in there about the tax collector and the Pharisee praying and the Pharisee proclaiming that he's better than the others especially the tax collector while the tax collector simply said "help me for I am a sinner?" That's my point. Too many people in the pews directly influence this girl because she knows (and often is right) that the Pharisees are going to look down upon her as a tax collector. She THEN irrationally goes to have the abortion so that she doesn't have to be put shunned by the Pharisees.

And you can have the argument all you want about being pro-choice but not pro-abortion but if you allow it, you are condoning it. .

 

Then I'm:

 

Pro-racism

Pro-homelessness

Pro-poverty

Pro-discrimination

I am Pro-Life but I would never ASSUME someone who supports another woman's right to have an abortion is Pro-Abortion. That's a big jump that is based on nothing more than emotions.

Do you equate abortion with murder in that a life was taken?

 

LBBC, take a breath and re-read again my original point. Some girls feel that abortion is an option because they KNOW that those in the pews WILL look down their collective noses at them IF they were pregnant and single. You keep changing it to AFTER they have an abortion but that's not my point.

 

You know the bible better than I. Isn't there a passage in there about the tax collector and the Pharisee praying and the Pharisee proclaiming that he's better than the others especially the tax collector while the tax collector simply said "help me for I am a sinner?" That's my point. Too many people in the pews directly influence this girl because she knows (and often is right) that the Pharisees are going to look down upon her as a tax collector. She THEN irrationally goes to have the abortion so that she doesn't have to be put shunned by the Pharisees.

 

I do equate it with taking of life and murder. Although, presently, I believe that females have boughten into the lie that our society is selling them that it is not taking a life. So, I don't think that we can go from our society telling them it is acceptable to right to "this is murder" and you are going to prison for many years mindset. Thus, my reasoning behind the hard stance on doctors who are performing it and females.

 

I think that is a PERCEPTION AND NOT REALITY of Christians. I think everyone LOVES to believe that but I don't think it is the true reality of Christians. I think there are a FEW Christians like that, but that is going to happen BECAUSE we are not perfect. Again, your argument is that she will do it because Christians are not perfect like, I guess, she believes we should be. News for her, I am not perfect and I will have improper thoughts, opinions and the like. I am just struggling to do better.

 

Sorry, to all you guys who expect me and the rest of us Christians to be perfect. We are disappointing you, I know, but we are struggling to do better. Please give us the consideration you rail on us about not having.

 

In the situations I am in with my job, your scenario has never occurred. They don't want the child because they will have to stay home and give up part of their life to the demands of raising a child.

 

In fact, I counter that the feminist movement is more to blame. It developed a mindset that women deserved the right to do and accomplish whatever they wish. And some females have taken that to mean that even the children they bore should not and will not stand in their way to living THEIR lives the way they want to live THEIR lives. So, they let grandma raise them, they ignore them and let the kids raise themselves, they are friends to the kid instead of a parent or they abort them.

 

That is the mindset I see. There is no stigma anymore to being unmarried and pregnant. Heck, you are rewarded for that.

 

Female goes to college and no kid. Needs 2 or 3 part time jobs to get through school and will still leave with grants and loans.

 

Female goes to college and has a child and they will have every single penny of their college paid for.

 

And while that is the way it is, I support helping single mothers benefit themselves.:thumb: