On 8/27/2023 at 11:08 AM, Greendevil72 said:

Should the entire crew be punished? Definitely the referee/white hat/ crew chief. Official who blew the whistle was probably a newer official and trust me will never forget it. 

The entire crew is responsible for that error. A judgement error happens......a rules mistake during game administration should not with 5-7 officials for sure! That mistake points out how important the official's pre-game conference is!!

2 hours ago, bulldog77 said:

Perhaps I missed this in an earlier post, but to me this is purely a training issue with whatever association assigned this crew.  The fact that not one of these officials stepped up and said, we interpreted this incorrectly AT THE TIME OF THE PLAY, makes me believe none of them knew the correct call to make.  Or, even worse, were afraid to step up and correct their peers.   That is a training issue for the association.  Somebody has to catch that.  "Punishing" the officials is absolutely the wrong look here.  If there was no intent to miss the call, and I'm more than certain there was not, why even use the term "punish?"  Fix the problem and try to use it as additional training for the entire association.  Owning the problem is noble, yes, but affixing blame where it may not be warranted is pretty weak in my opinion.

It was a definite lack of knowledge of the rules and game administration. All five(?) officials were responsible for this error. I totally agree with the Commissioner and his decision (He was an official). I served as a long time official and an observer. Not the first time this has happened. Social media just makes many more aware.

I like that the KHSAA took action against the officials and are holding them accountable. Would have liked to see a different ruling for the game. Somerset would have received an RPI boost with this win. Could they have counted this as a tie and both teams receive .5 for the RPI versus one team taking a loss? 

I did this for 20 years. I know I probably missed calls.  That is why they are judgment calls.  I knew my rules. Everyone should know the options on an inadvertent whistle. As someone said earlier, at least get off to the side and discuss the matter. When I officiated whoever threw the flag discussed the penalty and went over the options with the referee before it was presented to the captains. Every crew seemed to have that 'rules guy' who was another go to guy.

May I get a clarification please? If the field goal is attempt is block is the ball still live? 

As long as it doesn’t cross the line of scrimmage it can recovered and advanced by K. It’s the same as a punt in this instance. If it’s blocked and goes past the line of scrimmage it can only be advanced by the defense, but can be recovered by the kicking team if muffed by the defense. Unless it ends up breaking the plane of the defenses end zone. 

2 hours ago, happ said:

May I get a clarification please? If the field goal is attempt is block is the ball still live? 

Yes, live ball behind the line of scrimmage. 

On 8/28/2023 at 10:24 AM, REALSPORT said:

What's your definition of incompetent?  Does interpreting a rule incorrectly make a ref incompetent.  And regardless of the reason, NO ONE should fear for their safety after a game.  NO ONE should follow and harass an official.  Yes, a missed call can impact a game, but so do the numerous mistakes and blown assignments committed by every team every week.  It's high school football, the play on the field isn't perfect and the officiating won't be either.  

My definition of incompetent is “not functioning properly”. In this case, my definition tracks. The refs did not do their job, therefore they did not function properly. Incompetent. 
quit trying to conflate how Refs are treated. No one is advocating for refs to be disrespected. Just own the failure and move on. Sheesh.

On 9/2/2023 at 1:31 AM, Yall Wear High Waters said:

My definition of incompetent is “not functioning properly”. In this case, my definition tracks. The refs did not do their job, therefore they did not function properly. Incompetent. 
quit trying to conflate how Refs are treated. No one is advocating for refs to be disrespected. Just own the failure and move on. Sheesh.

Fair enough.  I just find it interesting what level of quality that people expect from high school refs.  Someone once told me that the expectation should be between 100% accurate on the high end (which is seldom attained but should still be the goal) and equal to the level of play on the low end.  Meaning pro officials are expected to be more competent than pee wee officials - because the level of play on the field is better.  That's the minimum.

2 hours ago, REALSPORT said:

Fair enough.  I just find it interesting what level of quality that people expect from high school refs.  Someone once told me that the expectation should be between 100% accurate on the high end (which is seldom attained but should still be the goal) and equal to the level of play on the low end.  Meaning pro officials are expected to be more competent than pee wee officials - because the level of play on the field is better.  That's the minimum.

Old baseball umpire's adage: (Officiating) is the only job where you're expected to be perfect on day one and get better from then on.

On 8/29/2023 at 7:24 PM, happ said:

May I get a clarification please? If the field goal is attempt is block is the ball still live? 

Yes. It's just like a punt(scrimmage kick). A free kick is a different situation.

No excuse for not knowing the rules. Officials have rule books and should study the rules on their own. It’s a shame that no one on that crew knew the rule and unfortunately cost the team a win. Missed calls happen but there is no excuse for not knowing the rules. 

On 9/5/2023 at 10:59 AM, REALSPORT said:

Fair enough.  I just find it interesting what level of quality that people expect from high school refs.  Someone once told me that the expectation should be between 100% accurate on the high end (which is seldom attained but should still be the goal) and equal to the level of play on the low end.  Meaning pro officials are expected to be more competent than pee wee officials - because the level of play on the field is better.  That's the minimum.

I personally don’t expect perfection. I do expect the refs to know the rules.  IMO, Knowing the rules is not perfection. Knowing the rules should be the minimum to officiate. The Fact that the KHSAA owned the mistake and took action, is a great thing. To use your analogy, I can see why  pro refs are expected to be more ACCURATE than Pee-Wee refs on judgements calls, but  I expect all levels to know the rules. 
I appreciate the dialogue! 

On 9/5/2023 at 1:54 PM, cheercoachwes said:

Old baseball umpire's adage: (Officiating) is the only job where you're expected to be perfect on day one and get better from then on.

One of my early mentors in football officiating told me this before a freshman game in 1980.