12 minutes ago, John Anthony said:

People are on board about selectively complaining about freedoms being taken away.  I’m simply an absolute guy. Yes there’s rules in society, but if we’re forced to take needles to participate in society, that’s not a free society.

But we are forced to take needles to participate in society for as long as I have been alive.  

23 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Freedom. That can go a lot of different ways.  There are probably 50 different things that impact everyone on this site every single day that could be argued you gave up your freedom when you follow the rules. Some of them have been talked about in this thread and in other similar threads. Some of them are mundane after thoughts but if you think about it you are giving up the freedom to do whatever you might want to do to follow the rules. Here are a few off the top of my head:

No smoking

Wear your seatbelt

Stop at the stop sign

Drive on the right side of the road

We need your social security number to get .......

No shoes, no shirt, no service

You must have auto insurance 

Follow the speed limit

Pay taxes of all kinds

Don't violate hundreds of rules/laws that are considered criminal

You may need certain licenses to do your job

Driver's licenses - auto, motorcycle, CDL

 I'm sure there are many, many more we can come up with. People follow those rules every day. So why is the requirement to wear a mask so offensive? People surrender freedoms every single day but the mask rule is outrageous. Every one of us has received vaccines of some sort but this vaccine is a problem. People are being manipulated. They are ignoring science and choosing to believe conspiracies. All because some people want contributions and control over thought. And many smart people are listening to the pied pipers.

@John Anthony

I think you and I agree that we all cede freedoms for the betterment of us all. We probably disagree on how much freedom we hive up.

4 minutes ago, PurplePride92 said:

But we are forced to take needles to participate in society for as long as I have been alive.  

Did they force you, or did you agree?

4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

@John Anthony

I think you and I agree that we all cede freedoms for the betterment of us all. We probably disagree on how much freedom we hive up.

Nothing on this list is relevant to someone forcing a needle in your arm.  

Strokes are up 7x the normal rate in the US before the vaccine was approved year-over-year, thousands of people under 30 are being diagnosed with myocarditis after receiving the vaccine.

While they overall number remains low, I believe it’s more reasoning not to force mandates.

22 minutes ago, John Anthony said:

Nothing on this list is relevant to someone forcing a needle in your arm.  

Strokes are up 7x the normal rate in the US before the vaccine was approved year-over-year, thousands of people under 30 are being diagnosed with myocarditis after receiving the vaccine.

While they overall number remains low, I believe it’s more reasoning not to force mandates.

Not to mention at this time it appears a previous infection (natural immunity) is superior to the vaccines against the Delta variant. 

46 minutes ago, theguru said:

Not to mention at this time it appears a previous infection (natural immunity) is superior to the vaccines against the Delta variant. 

That's because the Delta variant is 99.3% similar to the original virus. So your antibodies recognize it almost immediately. It's also 80% similar to SARS from back in 2003.

Just to keep in mind.  There is no legally "FDA approved" vaccine available or in the pipeline yet.  The "approved" version has yet to be put out for distribution.  Only the "EUA authorized" version is available and will be available for some time. 

Its probably to the companies advantage to use the EUA versions for as long as they can.  Less liability. 

1 hour ago, theguru said:

Not to mention at this time it appears a previous infection (natural immunity) is superior to the vaccines against the Delta variant. 

A study that was released this week. 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

 

Excerpt:

"Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

 

It seems to say natural is better than 2-jab vaxx.  But it also seems to say natural + 1-jab offers better that just natural alone.  That is how I read this conclusion.  So "partially vaxxed" and previously infect is optimum?  Just another data point to add to the mix. 

As a naturally vaxxed person, I will say the most noticeable long term impact has been taste of Coca-Cola.  Whatever COVID did back in November - it seems to have changed the taste of Coke forever.  Strange. 

 

2 hours ago, John Anthony said:

Did they force you, or did you agree?

I was forced to take vaccinations to attend school as a child.   
 

I was forced to take hepatitis shots before traveling to Japan.  
 

I agreed to take the COVID vaccine to do my part in trying to end a pandemic.  

58 minutes ago, Bluegrasscard said:

A study that was released this week. 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

 

Excerpt:

"Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

 

It seems to say natural is better than 2-jab vaxx.  But it also seems to say natural + 1-jab offers better that just natural alone.  That is how I read this conclusion.  So "partially vaxxed" and previously infect is optimum?  Just another data point to add to the mix. 

As a naturally vaxxed person, I will say the most noticeable long term impact has been taste of Coca-Cola.  Whatever COVID did back in November - it seems to have changed the taste of Coke forever.  Strange. 

 

So your theory is I should try to get Covid(hope it doesn’t kill me) and I’ll be more protected than the shot?    

8 minutes ago, PurplePride92 said:

So your theory is I should try to get Covid(hope it doesn’t kill me) and I’ll be more protected than the shot?    

An anti-body test may be in order.  If you have anti-bodies then you may have "had it" and never known it - many may be in that category.  Some had mild versions of covid and never formally tested. 

If you are young (less than 30) there seems to be little reason to vaxx at all.  Natural efficacy is 99.x%.  Vaxx - less than that. 

The single dose comment is what I found odd in that report.  They are part of the "unvaxxed" but may be the better protected. 

 

5 hours ago, theguru said:

Not to mention at this time it appears a previous infection (natural immunity) is superior to the vaccines against the Delta variant. 

I’ve literally spoken to 10 different doctors who told me the only patient that doesn’t come back in with Covid, is someone who’s already had it, extremely rare.

2 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

An anti-body test may be in order.  If you have anti-bodies then you may have "had it" and never known it - many may be in that category.  Some had mild versions of covid and never formally tested. 

If you are young (less than 30) there seems to be little reason to vaxx at all.  Natural efficacy is 99.x%.  Vaxx - less than that. 

The single dose comment is what I found odd in that report.  They are part of the "unvaxxed" but may be the better protected. 

 

95% of people who die from CV19, have an average of 4 comorbidities.  Meaning,  obesity, diabetes, +2 more.

16 minutes ago, John Anthony said:

I’ve literally spoken to 10 different doctors who told me the only patient that doesn’t come back in with Covid, is someone who’s already had it, extremely rare.

All other debates aside, I think it is to be expected that our immune system knows best. 

1 hour ago, John Anthony said:

95% of people who die from CV19, have an average of 4 comorbidities.  Meaning,  obesity, diabetes, +2 more.

The obesity is a problem due to the fact that obese people are usually also low on Vitamin-D levels.   And Vitamin-D level may be the number one factor in outcome.  Studies are specific on this. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7276229/

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200702/More-evidence-on-vitamin-D-deficiency-and-death-rates-from-COVID-19.aspx