Healthcare? No

 

Health insurance? Yes, thanks to Obama.

 

Really? My insurance has been going sideways ever since I first got it in 2002. Prior to that I was in the bracket that couldn't afford health insurance.

All society owes those on the bottom end of the "poverty gap" is the freedom to succeed. I believe that a social safety net should be provided for those who are truly incapable of providing for themselves. However, as long as poor people continue to vote for politicians promising more generous government handouts, generational poverty will persist.

 

Socialism deprives citizens of both political and economic freedom. We cannot be truly free as long as our fellow citizens have both hands in OUR pockets and continues to use the fruits of OUR labor to buy votes of able-bodied citizens who have no desire to work.

 

Socialism and communism have not failed because of the greed of those whom they have subjugated . They have failed because their proponents will never understand human nature and will continue to tinker with systems doomed to failure. People are born with a yearning to be free, but there are a few among us who feel superior enough to deprive us of that freedom.

 

Most are.

 

A whole bunch are also born yearning to be rich.

I pay for them under your socialistic plan too.

 

Cheaper to pay on the front end or none of us would have insurance.

Most are.

 

A whole bunch are also born yearning to be rich.

Poor people cannot become rich without personal and economic liberty. When an economic system punishes success, then success becomes rare. Socialism spreads misery. Economic liberty provides a path out of poverty to those who choose to follow it.

Sure. I'd be happy not to have to pay for diabetes screenings, prostate screenings and such as well. I don't have either.

 

Nor should you, just like I shouldn't have to pay for obgyn/prenatal type coverage.

Because then they are still participating in the free market, somewhat. Give them x amount of dollars they go shop for a plan that fits them and pay as much or as little for it as they want. You also have the insurance companies out there competing for those dollars as well.

 

If I am giving money away, I would rather have some control over how it is spent and the cost to society for giving that money away. If I give them health insurance I know the dollars will be spent in a way that benefits society the most.

All you have to do is look at the debacle the VA is to see what a completely horrible idea this is.

 

Look at all well intended government programs and see how they have become bloated, bureaucratic and over budget.

Look at all well intended government programs and see how they have become bloated, bureaucratic and over budget.

 

Isn't the healthcare and insurance industry the same?

I don't want to cover any of your tests at any cost, regardless of deductibles or OOP. I don't have those conditions, so I want to choose to not have them included as covered at all in my plan.

 

And I don't have a uterus, ovaries or a cervix to be scraped. Why should my plan have to pay for that? Like you said, one size doesn't fit all.

Isn't the healthcare and insurance industry the same?

 

Not even close

Isn't the healthcare and insurance industry the same?

 

Most of society has too much paperwork, which translates into extra work and higher budgets. A lot of this paperwork is due to government regulations and lawsuits.

 

Sad to see that so many cannot understand that big government is wasteful and demeaning to individual freedoms. If business becomes wasteful and bureaucratic they go out business, unless propped up by more wasteful, bureaucratic government spending. Money that is taken from the hardworking middle class.

 

I believe most of us do not mind giving temporary aid to people to those who need a hand up, not a handout and long term aid to those who have phyiscal or mental disabilities. There in lies a difference, some believe in government so much that they want it to run everyones lives, vs those who see a need to help a few.

I am not surprised you are a fan. His thoughts at times come through your posts. He was brilliant, as are other economist. Debates are always won by the people we agree with. Glad to hear he was undefeated in your mind.

 

His strength was not understanding human behavior, but we will disagree.

 

But to say what you are saying shows either a lack of understanding of his philosphy or you have never read up on him. Otherwise your point is just dishonest.

It's like giving your kids an allowance and telling them they need to save it for college then get ticked when they don't.

 

I don't get it. :idunno:

 

So you don't believe in freedom. Now we have got to the heart of it.

While I admire your intelligence, I don't feel you have the capacity for empathy. I think that's why you feel Friedman has the answers. But, in the living, breathing world of humans, logic can only guide, it cannot be relied upon in practice. There is no "one size fits all" solution to any social issue.

 

So logic is not the answer ?

Are there any modern Republicans who support a guaranteed minimum income? That is a no-strings block of money, ostensibly enough to cover the basics of food, housing, and health. It seems to me policies like the EITC have recently become controversial on the right, and the scourge of poor people buying steaks with food stamps has been an eternal lament on this site.

 

I think if anyone other than Friedman had articulated this they'd be castigated as a redistributionist, big-spending liberal.

 

At any rate, I don't think this would attack the heart of the insurance problem. The cost of coverage and care is outrageously high for a lot of reasons (a problem well before Obama, lest we forget), not the least of which are the attachment of insurance coverage to full-time employment and the way insurance obfuscates the market by incentivizing hospitals and providers (including pharmaceutical companies) to raise costs independent of outcomes.

 

It leads to situations where purchasing individual insurance outside of employer subsidies is nearly impossible and purchasing care directly is even more fantastical, all the while insurers are charging more to cover higher medical costs, which no one is aware of because they have insurance and don't pay the bills directly.