Jesse, you support a living wage?

:clap:

 

I am for fair wages. I think, like BBallfamily said, being prepared to provide for you family is a living wage. There are some unfortunately that cannot do that, for whatever reason that need help. But we have many leeches that suck the blood out of that system.

 

I am not for a living wage as you seem to think I am . Socialism sucks. There is much more to Socialism that wages. Did I say Socialism sucks. You know its bad when Bernie is the best candidate that you can muster.

Got to the 7:30 mark in this video.

 

Direct question about insuring the uninsured. Interesting answer. Its one that basically matches what an insider said was a better solution.

 

[video=youtube;-6t-R3pWrRw]

 

Why would it be better to give the poor money instead of health insurance?

Why would it be better to give the poor money instead of health insurance?

 

Because then they are still participating in the free market, somewhat. Give them x amount of dollars they go shop for a plan that fits them and pay as much or as little for it as they want. You also have the insurance companies out there competing for those dollars as well.

I am not surprised you are a fan. His thoughts at times come through your posts. He was brilliant, as are other economist. Debates are always won by the people we agree with. Glad to hear he was undefeated in your mind.

 

His strength was not understanding human behavior, but we will disagree.

Really? Maybe you can point to a debate that you believe Milton Friedman lost to a socialist. Friedman understood that society gets behavior that it rewards and that capitalism is the most fair and effective economic system every known because it rewards hard work and ingenuity with success.

 

Socialists always believe that the reason that their schemes fail is that greedy capitalists refuse to properly fund them by redistributing the wealth earned by one group of individuals to those who have earned nothing.

 

Nobody in a free society has a right to what another man or woman has earned. When society rewards bad behavior by playing Robin Hood, then it creates a culture of dependency that breeds contempt and creates the divisiveness that we see today.

 

One of Friedman's favorite quotes was:

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. George Bernard Shaw

 

Among my favorite Friedman quotes are:

 

We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork.

Milton Friedman

Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Friedman

The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit. Milton Friedman

And what does reward virtue? You think the communist commissar rewards virtue? You think a Hitler rewards virtue? You think, excuse me, if you'll pardon me, American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. Milton Friedman

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Milton Friedman

Indeed, a major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. Milton Friedman

The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom. Milton Friedman

The greatest advances of civilization, whether in architecture or painting, in science and literature, in industry or agriculture, have never come from centralized government. Milton Friedman

Every friend of freedom must be as revolted as I am by the prospect of turning the United States into an armed camp, by the vision of jails filled with casual drug users and of an army of enforcers empowered to invade the liberty of citizens on slight evidence. Milton Friedman

The most important ways in which I think the Internet will affect the big issue is that it will make it more difficult for government to collect taxes. Milton Friedman

 

Do you really believe that the man who made the statements above did not understand human nature?

Why would it be better to give the poor money instead of health insurance?

 

It's like giving your kids an allowance and telling them they need to save it for college then get ticked when they don't.

 

I don't get it. :idunno:

I am for fair wages. I think, like BBallfamily said, being prepared to provide for you family is a living wage. There are some unfortunately that cannot do that, for whatever reason that need help. But we have many leeches that suck the blood out of that system.

 

I am not for a living wage as you seem to think I am . Socialism sucks. There is much more to Socialism that wages. Did I say Socialism sucks. You know its bad when Bernie is the best candidate that you can muster.

 

National Healthcare is one of those socialist ideas we need to get behind, Jesse. The expense is one of the reasons people don't enter the workforce.

Free healthcare or now get a job and have to pay for worse coverage. The working man is the loser here.

 

Living wage is coming unless Trump bans robots. :lol2:

National Healthcare is one of those socialist ideas we need to get behind, Jesse. The expense is one of the reasons people don't enter the workforce.

Free healthcare or now get a job and have to pay for worse coverage. The working man is the loser here.

 

Living wage is coming unless Trump bans robots. :lol2:

 

I am going to be out of pocket today, but I am going to start another thread before I leave to see what we need to get behind.

National Healthcare is one of those socialist ideas we need to get behind, Jesse. The expense is one of the reasons people don't enter the workforce.

Free healthcare or now get a job and have to pay for worse coverage. The working man is the loser here.

 

Living wage is coming unless Trump bans robots. :lol2:

 

All you have to do is look at the debacle the VA is to see what a completely horrible idea this is.

I could not disagree more with the bolded. I have spent many hours reading and listening to Milton Friedman's words and I cannot think of anybody who understood human behavior better than Friedman. Friedman easily makes my top 5 of American thinkers of the 20th century. Friedman was a fearless debater, yet he always seemed to be enjoying himself. I have watched him take on entire panels of liberal economists and never saw him lose a debate.

 

While I admire your intelligence, I don't feel you have the capacity for empathy. I think that's why you feel Friedman has the answers. But, in the living, breathing world of humans, logic can only guide, it cannot be relied upon in practice. There is no "one size fits all" solution to any social issue.

While I admire your intelligence, I don't feel you have the capacity for empathy. I think that's why you feel Friedman has the answers. But, in the living, breathing world of humans, logic can only guide, it cannot be relied upon in practice. There is no "one size fits all" solution to any social issue.

 

But isn't that exactly what we got with Obamacare? Every insurance policy has to cover a litany of services whether the policy holder will ever use them or not.

But isn't that exactly what we got with Obamacare? Every insurance policy has to cover a litany of services whether the policy holder will ever use them or not.

 

Still upset about coverage for women's health issues, I see.

Really? Maybe you can point to a debate that you believe Milton Friedman lost to a socialist. Friedman understood that society gets behavior that it rewards and that capitalism is the most fair and effective economic system every known because it rewards hard work and ingenuity with success.

 

Socialists always believe that the reason that their schemes fail is that greedy capitalists refuse to properly fund them by redistributing the wealth earned by one group of individuals to those who have earned nothing.

 

Nobody in a free society has a right to what another man or woman has earned. When society rewards bad behavior by playing Robin Hood, then it creates a culture of dependency that breeds contempt and creates the divisiveness that we see today.

 

One of Friedman's favorite quotes was:

 

 

Among my favorite Friedman quotes are:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you really believe that the man who made the statements above did not understand human nature?

 

 

Friedman understands human nature with the middle class, not those in poverty, not the very rich. Again, winners in debates to people are the one's that share your mindset, plain and simple. A socialist will never win a debate with a hard right or even moderate conservative, even if it might be the best idea. The reverse is also in place, a person who has socialistic tendencies or beliefs will never think an economic conservative will win a debate.

 

The works of two persons that researched and wrote about poverty are Dr. Ruby Payne and Dr. Eric Jensen. Dr. Payne writes about the social and mindsets of those in poverty, while Dr. Jensen is a neurologist that has researched and written about how the issues of poverty affects the brain and learning.

 

Dr. Payne would ascertain that giving someone in poverty X amount of money will go for entertainment and anyone they care about that wants their money. It's one hidden rule of the generational poverty mindset, entertainment and relationships drive their daily thinking, they live in the present only. The middle class mindset on money is you work hard, earn it, save, and then buy it, they think future. The wealthy mindset is money buys you legacies and prestige present and future do not matter because they can buy anything and money drives their thinking. Persons in generational poverty have no bank accounts, make no appointments, buy exactly what will make them, or the person they care about, happy at the moment. In middle class we will not buy that pair of shoes for Johnny if our gas bill is extra high that month or we save for them or teach the child to save for them.

 

So under Friedman's model giving them money to manage is throwing it away, the will buy nice tv's, expensive shoes for their kids, give a lover money for whatever. Food is not entertainment, health care is not entertainment. I could go on and on, but maybe you get the point of her research.

 

Her solution would do not give them handouts, but provide them with what them the basic services (food, healthcare, transportation) when they need it and skill them up to EARN money for the entertainment. Until people in poverty, are stopped given money to use it as they please, well you get welfare checks for having babies, having your child identified as special needs, etc. Don't give people in generational poverty $$, provide them basic services. They should earn for entertainment to begin to move how to live in a middle class society of work, earn, then buy. Middle class do this by adding the layer of borrowing on earning potential. These are in general, there are always outliers.have the poverty mindsets.

 

Friedman only economic works if everyone is in middle class. No, he dd not understand human behavior. Brilliant in managing and using money, otherwise, he was out of touch.

 

Don't confuse generational and situational poverty. Generational poverty is generations of poverty and they have poverty mindsets. Situational poverty is someone placed in poverty by a situation, divorce, death or a wage earner, loss of a job, etc. This folks have middle class mindsets and now how to get out of poverty and it will take time, but need assistance. giving them money WOULD help.

 

Finally, persons in generational poverty are generally happy and do not want to be judged or pitied. Now they will judge you, but don't want to be. Judging them will only make them dislike and not trust you. It is the way those in generational poverty think.

 

Until we understand their thinking and develop assistance that truly moves them to societal norms and success patterns, we will always have it. I guarantee you giving them money and trying to make them do things they don't want to do or even is not logical to them will get you where we are, very little change in poverty gaps. We have seen this what about 70years now and if we give them what Friedman says another 70 is around the corner.

Still upset about coverage for women's health issues, I see.

 

Why shouldn't I be? As I've said MANY, MANY, MANY times I have ZERO issues with coverage being available (as a rider) for women's birth control, but of course that gets translated into All Tell doesn't want women to have access to health care. I have HUGE issues with the costs of my coverage skyrocketing because all plans have to cover them. Obama promised if I like my plan I could keep my plan.

 

You said it yourself, one size doesn't fit all in social issues. Do you believe it or don't you?

Why shouldn't I be? As I've said MANY, MANY, MANY times I have ZERO issues with coverage being available (as a rider) for women's birth control, but of course that gets translated into All Tell doesn't want women to have access to health care. I have HUGE issues with the costs of my coverage skyrocketing because all plans have to cover them. Obama promised if I like my plan I could keep my plan.

 

You said it yourself, one size doesn't fit all in social issues. Do you believe it or don't you?

 

Sure. I'd be happy not to have to pay for diabetes screenings, prostate screenings and such as well. I don't have either.

While I admire your intelligence, I don't feel you have the capacity for empathy. I think that's why you feel Friedman has the answers. But, in the living, breathing world of humans, logic can only guide, it cannot be relied upon in practice. There is no "one size fits all" solution to any social issue.

There is no evidence that throwing more money at the failed socialist programs that you advocate turns those programs into success stories. When big government programs fail, it does not matter whether the intentions of those who advocated them were good. Government involvement in healthcare has resulted in reduced quality, longer waits for services, and higher costs to consumers. As somebody already pointed out, if you want to see the results of a single payer, government monopoly on healthcare services, you need only look as far as the VA debacle.

 

There is nothing empathetic about supporting federal and state programs that fail and spread misery. I oppose sin taxes on alcohol and tobacco because they are the most regressive taxes that our government levies against its citizens. When you tax addiction, children are the first ones harmed as more of the family budget gets spent feeding the addiction and less gets spent on caring for children in the care of addicts. In contrast, most socialists that I know support such taxes because they buy into the notion that governments should be in the business of dictating individual behavior and that bureaucrats are capable of overcoming human nature through legislation and regulation.

 

Logic and empathy are not mutually exclusive concepts. When one believes oneself morally superior to those with whom they disagree and pursues a course that is illogical, they are only deluding themselves when they call their own behavior "empathetic."