June 24, 201610 yr A few elementary school kids and a few churchgoers and a few gay clubbers and a few college students and a few child-care workers and a few moviegoers is a small price to pay. Just as long as most of them are persons of color from the big city. Whenever are are allowed to be safe, instead of feeling safe and allow armed protection in all of those examples we could save lives.
June 24, 201610 yr So you're going to say that in all of these attacks the shooter had a personal connection too? Making it a coincidence that they just happened to be gun free? France and Germany are gun free countries, not zones. What's the coincidence?? The fact that there is usually a personal connection or that it's a gun free zone?? My point is we don't know the motivation, because most of these guys end up dead. And then we make assumptions support our position and call them facts.
June 24, 201610 yr Per Americans I know who went to University in Europe, taught at University in Europe and worked other jobs in Europe, gang violence is far more common in the US than in Europe. Europe has gangs but not near the degree as in the US, per those I mention. The one I know the best and talk to the most often got his Ph.D. from Cambridge, did post doctorial research at some institution in Germany I cannot remember, has taught a few years in Nice, France, dates a girl just outside of Paris, France, has second cousins in Austria and Hungry he visits every summer and he often goes to or lectures at numerous lectures in Europe. I would say his experience across Europe is the most exhaustive of anyone I know and why I take him for his word in regards to gang violence in the US versus Europe. So he's been to all the tourist spots, that are generally scrubbed of "unpleasant" things. Did your friend hang out much in the 'hood?
June 24, 201610 yr No - gangs come with institutionalized poverty though. Most of Europe does not have institutionalized poverty and ghettos to the extent of the US, or even more pronounced - the Latin and South America countries. But that may change with the influx of ME people. The non-mainstream reports indicate the gunner today spoke 'broken Germain'. Does not sound like a native. Run this same chart against Valenzuela, Brazil, Honduras and the conclusion of how bad the US would be different. In these counties the poorest live in cities on dirt as their floor with scrap steel for a roof. It was hard to see in Sao Paulo. I did not run into similar conditions in Luxembourg or Brussels. I'm guessing it's because you didn't go to their roughest neighborhoods. Nobody goes willingly into South Chicago or any other urban hell-hole, just like no European tourists go to the worst neighborhoods in Europe's many, many cities of 1 million-plus people. Their ghettoes are just as crummy as ours.
June 24, 201610 yr I'm guessing it's because you didn't go to their roughest neighborhoods. Nobody goes willingly into South Chicago or any other urban hell-hole, just like no European tourists go to the worst neighborhoods in Europe's many, many cities of 1 million-plus people. Their ghettoes are just as crummy as ours. There is nothing like the shanty areas of Sao Paulo in Europe. Tourist or business travel, no one said to ensure to have your life-insurance up to date when going to Europe. But for Brazil or Mexico - standard practice. The point is the vast majority of 'gun violence' in the US is poverty driven. We've written off Baltimore almost in total, every major city has its combat zones. They are abandoned areas and have turned into violent pockets that drive these statistics. As you point out - if you avoid these areas - its like Europe.
June 24, 201610 yr You need to slow your roll there D. Exactly what gun law would have prohibited the Orlando shooting? The Sandy Hook? Ban an the AR-15? They would have used an AK-47 type. Maybe a couple of Glock 19's. If they were Gen 4's they would come with 3 mags each. What I find disgusting and pitiful is the typical knee jerk reaction of those that want to blame an inatimate object for these mass shootings instead of the true reason, the person committing the heinous act. While your busy feeling high and mighty, I'll be looking for REAL solutions. Pay attention. I've already said I don't have a specific law that would solve the problem. All I'm asking for is open mindedness and an EFFORT to discuss alternatives to the accessibility of firearms in our country. Like Ive said, if you can't even consider rethinking the way we do some things, you are okay with these tragedies. Nobody here has has blamed a gun for any of those incidents. We simply realize we as a country need to take a hard look at things and how we can improve the situation and prevention. You clearly have no intention of doing that.
June 24, 201610 yr This country has more firearms than ever. It don't seem to be helping. But we're much safer!!
June 24, 201610 yr There is nothing like the shanty areas of Sao Paulo in Europe. Tourist or business travel, no one said to ensure to have your life-insurance up to date when going to Europe. But for Brazil or Mexico - standard practice. The point is the vast majority of 'gun violence' in the US is poverty driven. We've written off Baltimore almost in total, every major city has its combat zones. They are abandoned areas and have turned into violent pockets that drive these statistics. As you point out - if you avoid these areas - its like Europe. So all those "no-non-Muslim-may-go-here" neighborhoods that Mt. Ref talks about in all of Europe's major cities don't actually exist?
June 24, 201610 yr So all those "no-non-Muslim-may-go-here" neighborhoods that Mt. Ref talks about in all of Europe's major cities don't actually exist? Things are changing. Someone I know someone who was in Paris recently. A ME refugee family was living just outside the doors of the hotel. Sound like they made tent like structure right on the sidewalk. Europe now has an immigration issue that needs addressing If not - these areas will start to become South Chicago or Portland in Louisville. And all the no-gun laws will be worthless. Just like the laws are mostly worthless as noted in the article comparing counties in Latin America posted earlier.
June 24, 201610 yr Things are changing. Someone I know someone who was in Paris recently. A ME refugee family was living just outside the doors of the hotel. Sound like they made tent like structure right on the sidewalk. Europe now has an immigration issue that needs addressing If not - these areas will start to become South Chicago or Portland in Louisville. And all the no-gun laws will be worthless. Just like the laws are mostly worthless as noted in the article comparing counties in Latin America posted earlier. There's probably better choices to make in Louisville than Portland, but yeah, I see your point. Still, though, I don't think anybody on this board would feel safer in Paris' worst neighborhoods than the West End of Louisville beyond folks in the West End speaking your language, mostly. And with Paris being about 10x bigger than L'ville, that makes it a much scarier place. Especially since a knowledge of French might not do you much good there.
June 24, 201610 yr While your busy feeling high and mighty, I'll be looking for REAL solutions. And......we're all waiting here in the US for the NRA, or someone on your side to do just that since you are adamant NO reform is necessary. It appears though, that this is the placating phrase thrown out when your side just want's to move along. No one on your side proposes a damn thinf, just opposes every damn thing. Edited June 24, 201610 yr by rockmom
June 24, 201610 yr For those of you who won't even consider revisiting gun laws in order to TRY to provide more safety to our citizens, you are, IMO, okay with these slaughters as long as you get to keep all your guns. It's pitiful and disgusting. Why should law abiding citizens be punished because of the actions of criminals? How will disarming law abiding citizens help?
June 24, 201610 yr Why should law abiding citizens be punished because of the actions of criminals? How will disarming law abiding citizens help? No one is really looking to disarm citizens. Even if the ban on assault weapons was reinstated citizens would hardly be disarmed. Has there been any information released on this guy other than the preliminary thought it was not terror-related?
June 24, 201610 yr No one is really looking to disarm citizens. Even if the ban on assault weapons was reinstated citizens would hardly be disarmed. Has there been any information released on this guy other than the preliminary thought it was not terror-related? What is an "assault weapon"? How will it help to take rifles away from law abiding citizens?
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