Who here really thinks Trump is going to build a wall? He is putting the spotlight on a very bad problem our country has. Do I think he would be very tough and secure our borders? Yes. Do I think he will build a wall like he says? Probably not.

For everyone talking about the Vatican wall, we remember that the pope was basically a prisoner inside the Vatican when Garibaldi's red shirts invaded Rome in the 19th century and unified Italy, don't we? He didn't put up the wall last week... or even in the 19th century.

 

In any case, I'm not worried about the wall. It's a typical Trump bit of nonsense to talk about this massive project and then expect someone else to pay for it. The man is woefully unprepared for the presidency.

 

No less prepared than Obama was.

Trump supporters defending the vulgar lizard brain over the holiest man on Earth. Do they have no shame?

 

You're the resident atheist, what does it matter to you?

 

For the record, I'm not Catholic. While I have all the respect in the world for the Pope, I don't respect him any more than I do Billy Graham.

Just for reference' date=' here is the original question as it was posed and the Holy Father's response, part of an hour-long interview he gave to multiple reporters on the plane today: "Phil Pullella, Reuters: Today, you spoke very eloquently about the problems of immigration. On the other side of the border, there is a very tough electoral battle. One of the candidates for the White House, Republican Donald Trump, in an interview recently said that you are a political man and he even said that you are a pawn, an instrument of the Mexican government for migration politics. Trump said that if he’s elected, he wants to build 2,500 kilometers of wall along the border. He wants to deport 11 million illegal immigrants, separating families, etcetera. I would like to ask you, what do you think of these accusations against you and if a North American Catholic can vote for a person like this? Pope Francis: Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'animal politicus.' At least I am a human person. As to whether I am a pawn, well, maybe, I don't know. I'll leave that up to your judgment and that of the people. And then, a person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not in the Gospel. As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt."[/quote']

 

Thanks

Thanks

 

To my mind, the reporter left the pope no choice but to answer the way he did by throwing in that bit about separating families through deportation. For a man completely dedicated to preserving the family and trying diligently to make it of primary importance in the world, there was no way he could be anything other than horrified by the thought.

 

The press, of course, ran on the "building walls" quote but personally, based on how he's answered so many other questions like it, I think the bit on separating families is probably what jumped out at Pope Francis and explains the apparent severity of his response.

Beat me to the punch.

 

You posted in the thread before he made this point. Don't act like you have as much knowledge as @Getslow lol jk.

I personally don't like when someone calls someone else a non-Christian, even if it's the Pope. In my opinion, that judgement only comes from the one above.

I personally don't like when someone calls someone else a non-Christian, even if it's the Pope. In my opinion, that judgement only comes from the one above.

 

I there's a language difficulty here too. I couldn't say for sure, but again, given the way this pope has handled things in the past, flat-out saying someone isn't a Christian is not his style.

 

When he says "this person is not Christian", I first took it to mean "This person is not being Christian," rather than "This person is not a Christian." The latter seems very unlike Francis, who has at times gone far out of his way to avoid divisive rhetoric like that.

To my mind, the reporter left the pope no choice but to answer the way he did by throwing in that bit about separating families through deportation. For a man completely dedicated to preserving the family and trying diligently to make it of primary importance in the world, there was no way he could be anything other than horrified by the thought.

 

The press, of course, ran on the "building walls" quote but personally, based on how he's answered so many other questions like it, I think the bit on separating families is probably what jumped out at Pope Francis and explains the apparent severity of his response.

 

The problem is that if the press took the "building walls" literally they then ignored the "building bridges" part.

I there's a language difficulty here too. I couldn't say for sure, but again, given the way this pope has handled things in the past, flat-out saying someone isn't a Christian is not his style.

 

When he says "this person is not Christian", I first took it to mean "This person is not being Christian," rather than "This person is not a Christian." The latter seems very unlike Francis, who has at times gone far out of his way to avoid divisive rhetoric like that.

 

Agreed on the language. If I said someone "wasn't a man" would I be meaning literally they were a female or would I be saying he's not acting like a man?

Not unlike Christ is his parables, this Pope speaks with deeper meanings. We should make an effort to reflect on his words in a spiritual context rather than take everything at face value. I personally believe he is also taking about the "walls" we sometimes put around our hearts to keep out our brothers and sisters who are also God's creations. Someone might say that these people are not Christians, but I would respond that we are called in the Gospels to love our enemies regardless. I have no problem with the Pope speaking out like this...Christ did the same thing in challenging the thinking of all people. Physical walls aren't the issue. Secure the boarder in the appropriate manner to protect the citizens of the United States. The real walls are not brick and mortar. They are the ones inside of us that keep us from loving our neighbors as ourselves. This, I feel, is what the Pope was trying to say about walls.

 

Second, I have no plan on judging Trump on whether he is a Christian (not our jobs). We can, however, observe the actions of one who claims to act as a Christian. Trump's response to the Pope's remarks was typical for Trump (calls them "Disgraceful"). Personally, if I were Trump, I would be humbly trying to figure out why the Pope said what he did and seek out a further explanation. Trump might want to consider James 1:26 - "If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain".

What's next? Is Trump going to call Jesus a pussywillow (without the willow) ?

I agree with the Pope. Building a wall to keep out those in need is absolutely not Christian.

If people in Mexico are in such need, shouldn't we just annex Mexico?

If people in Mexico are in such need, shouldn't we just annex Mexico?

 

Well we already got over half of it that way back in the 1800's. Might well just go ahead and get the rest. We could call it Manifest Destiny part II.