January 11, 201610 yr Serious question, how do they come to that conclusion? From the rules I have seen, I'm genuinely curious. If it is the runner/not a runner analysis, I don't know how Periera et al reconcile: Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8. Initiating Contact With the Crown of the Helmet. It is a foul if a runner or tackler initiates forcible contact by delivering a blow with the top/crown of his helmet against an opponent when both players are clearly outside the tackle box (an area extending from tackle to tackle and from three yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team's end line). Incidental contact by the helmet of a runner or tackler against an opponent shall not be a foul. Am I missing something?
January 11, 201610 yr You have yet to disprove it... You're admitting it's "interpretation".. And all I'm saying is that is the problem with the NFL.. Period. Take Burfict and Shazier out of the equation altogether... Fine with me. Football is almost unwatchable anymore with all the penalties and such. As you said, several former officials and players think Shazier's hit wasn't a penalty, but just as many former officials and players disagree. If that's the case, and it is... How do they expect fans to "understand" when it's a penalty and when it isn't one. Sorry if you can't follow my logic... I'm sure most on here, even if they disagree, can understand clearly where I'm coming from. There's nothing to disprove. You see it differently than I do, or many others do. How that proves your point is beyond my feeble comprehensive ability obviously.
January 11, 201610 yr Wrong Clyde, maybe I'm being unclear.. So let me clarify. I'm saying in "my opinion" and many other former players and officials' opinion it is a penalty. And that's a problem, it shouldn't be open for interpretation.. Use instant replay and get it right... Let me ask you, was Williams' hit earlier in the game a penalty? It was flagged, but was it the right call? No one I've seen or read have said it was the right call. I'm just saying, simplify the rule and get it right.. No more, no less. So, yeah, in my mind... It was a penalty... But as you pointed out, many agree with me and many disagree... NFL can and should clear this kind of stuff up. I think they should do replay for these types of penalties like mentioned earlier in this thread. If they want to make the game safer and err on the side of caution, have the officials flag the play if it's close in real time and use replay to either confirm or overturn the penalty (like college does). That wouldn't increase the length of the game much either, especially if their is an injury like there was on the Gio hit (refs can review during injury timeout).
January 11, 201610 yr I really don't care about all that garb frankly, I'm actually eager to see the total $ amount of fines for this one.
January 11, 201610 yr There's nothing to disprove. You see it differently than I do, or many others do. How that proves your point is beyond my feeble comprehensive ability obviously. Spin, seriously, how are you not getting this? My problem is that people who call the games "see it differently "... Was Williams hit illegal? No, but it was flagged... That's a problem. How would you have felt if Burfict wasn't flagged? In today's game, it's possible... The Shazier hit would've been flagged by at least half the officials in the league and we happened to have one from the other half that wouldn't call it. That's all I'm saying... I think it was a penalty and I get that I'm just a fan...so it doesn't matter. What does matter is this: half the officials see it one way and the other half sees it another way. My gosh, have you seen Periera and these formal officials on broadcasts this season? At least half the time they disagree with the calls on the field... EVEN AFTER WATCHING INSTANT REPLAYS "... That's what my point is. Let's simplify the rules and get it right.
January 11, 201610 yr I don't think anything is clear or without question when you have so many so called experts who have seen slow motion replays and cannot even agree.
January 11, 201610 yr I really don't care about all that garb frankly, I'm actually eager to see the total $ amount of fines for this one. I can answer that one. Eleventy billion.
January 11, 201610 yr I don't think anything is clear or without question when you have so many so called experts who have seen slow motion replays and cannot even agree. Exactly, been my point this whole time... If possible, and maybe it isn't.... Simplify the rules and get it right with replay. Example: lead with your head and hit a guys head... Penalty... Regardless of intent.
January 11, 201610 yr Exactly, been my point this whole time... If possible, and maybe it isn't.... Simplify the rules and get it right with replay. Example: lead with your head and hit a guys head... Penalty... Regardless of intent. I'm not in the mood for argument, but I never said for a second that the penalty on Shazier cut and dried, but you and many others said it's a penalty. That's all I said. Not sure why that's such a source of contention.
January 11, 201610 yr There lies the problem... It's a penalty or it isn't... I think the Burfict hit was a penalty and the Shazier hit was a penalty... The Williams hit clearly was not a penalty in anybody's eyes and he was flagged... I've seen shows on ESPN all day breaking down Burfict hits and penalties over the years... No one is in agreement on any of these shows as to what was clean and what wasn't... Time to simplify the rules, take out interpretation... Even if you "accidentally" hit a guy illegally it's a penalty... Period. Or, get back to real football... Ronnie Lott and Rod Woodsen wouldn't be hall of famers in today's NFL... It's weak. You have yet to disprove it... You're admitting it's "interpretation".. And all I'm saying is that is the problem with the NFL.. Period. Take Burfict and Shazier out of the equation altogether... Fine with me. Football is almost unwatchable anymore with all the penalties and such. As you said, several former officials and players think Shazier's hit wasn't a penalty, but just as many former officials and players disagree. If that's the case, and it is... How do they expect fans to "understand" when it's a penalty and when it isn't one. Sorry if you can't follow my logic... I'm sure most on here, even if they disagree, can understand clearly where I'm coming from. You probably ought to have conversations with all the families of NFL players who were diagnosed with CTE. It sounds like you are more annoyed with the inconvenience to you watching the games because of all the extra penalties. I bet you would really like the original Gladiators (and I'm not talking about the TV show either).
January 11, 201610 yr I'm not in the mood for argument, but I never said for a second that the penalty on Shazier cut and dried, but you and many others said it's a penalty. That's all I said. Not sure why that's such a source of contention. So, do you dispute NKU Baseballclub's post that clearly shows in the rule book that it can and often will be "interpreted" as a penalty? I'm not trying to argue... I just wanna know, doesn't it bother you that officials see the same thing differently almost 50% of the time?
January 11, 201610 yr You probably ought to have conversations with all the families of NFL players who were diagnosed with CTE. It sounds like you are more annoyed with the inconvenience to you watching the games because of all the extra penalties. I bet you would really like the original Gladiators (and I'm not talking about the TV show either). No, I just want to know what the rules are and I want the officials to know what the rules are... Btw, the players and families know the risks in football.. Their decision to participate or not. I'm not saying lets just have guys hit each other in the head, etc... What I'm saying is, be consistent with the calls... We had Williams put a clean hard hit on a guy, didn't hit him in the head or lead with his own head... He was penalized... Shazier lead with his head into Gio's head and knocked him out cold... No flag. Give me consistent calls... I'm not bothered by flags, just the inconsistency of them... And you're gladiators comment was below the belt and stupid. Edited January 11, 201610 yr by footmaster
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