Jason's right...no list is perfect. And it's a LOT of work to compile so kudos to him for what he does.

 

The instructions say for us to "vote for the best player you've seen at each position" but very few actually do that from coaches I've talked to.

 

Many send out emails to the coaches' list serve promoting those we feel deserve it most, but there are so many of them it would take a lot of time and effort to compare all the kids listed.

 

There's definite 'vote-trading' that goes on between coaches who are long-time friends (and why not, since it's set up the way it is).

 

There's also 'bloc-voting' that some parts of the state engage in--encouraging many (all?) members of their area association to vote for a particular list made up of kids from their geographical area. Again, I'm not saying this is wrong and it's perfectly understandable given the parameters of the team.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a MERGER of the C-J All-State (easily the most historically significant), the AP (the least accurate in my opinion due to so few voters throughout the state), and the BGP (to me the most accurate b/c it gathers passionate HS football people from around the state who weigh stats, importance to team, and other objective/non-objective factors).

 

Not sure how it would be done logistically, but I'd love to see a group of distinguished former HS coaches get together every December (at State Finals?) to watch film of nominees and give their input.

Could you give me the names of some of the kids you think he leapfrogged? I would like to do my due-diligance and look at them. Because I'm not familiar with all the names.

 

Also, is the award based on your career body of work? I didn't think that was the case, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

How about Dorsey from Manual for starters? His 3rd team selection is pretty funny. One of the top D Linemen in the state.

I was very impressed with Dougherty in the game I saw. He had a strong leg and converted on the FG with ease. Very good player! I only saw 1 of the top 3 kickers on the list but could've seen him as a top 3 kicker this year.

 

Didn't he play some LB for Highlands as well?

 

Did in fact play LB this year and last. Started the year at safety before some other kids developed and then was moved back to LB.

You seem to be basing it off stats. That's OK. Statistically there were several other kids who were better. You are right.

 

Stats is a part of it...but more importantly to me is the fact he played less than Half of the year... and when he did play probably 2/3 of his snaps were lined up as a LB

 

Once again, no denying he is a great football player and "All-State" worthy as a Football Player in general... but solely speaking as a D-Linemen I cannot come close to considering him above several names that were left off the First Team list who proved themselves over the entire course of the season.

 

Just so I am completely transparent... I have no dog left in this fight because the one Belfry kid who I would be advocating for is already on the list in Horton...

 

With that said, there is no way I can give the edge to someone who only essentially played 5 games and maybe had a handful of TFL's compared to this kid who was basically the heartbeat of his team and probably had 10+ sacks and was possibly the best Defensive Player in Class 2A all season:

Senior highlights - Maleek Lawrence highlights

Could you give me the names of some of the kids you think he leapfrogged? I would like to do my due-diligance and look at them. Because I'm not familiar with all the names.

 

Also, is the award based on your career body of work? I didn't think that was the case, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Certainly:

Lawrence from NewCath (Just posted above)

 

Derek Dorsey-Manual, going on to play D-1 Ball

 

Dalan Cofer- Bowling Green, was the best Defensive Player on the Field in the 5A Title Game

 

Harley Lambert- Corbin

 

Cole Bentley- Belfry

 

Lucas Turpin- Southwestern 13 Sacks, 22 TFL's

ATL, You got to realize that this was voted on by coaches not Sports Writers.

There are about 50+ kids that get Hon Mention or Nothing that should. Kentucky has 3 teams and it's a shame some kids don't get on it. I was shocked some kids didn't get on it. Sometimes the AP All State team is different. SO, there might be a chance some kids that didn't make it may make that team.

 

We have ALL SEEN kids that are very deserving not make it that should. I thought Ray Zuberer should of easily been a Mr. Football Candidate, but at the end of the day he's not.

Just my 2 cents.

ATL, You got to realize that this was voted on by coaches not Sports Writers.

There are about 50+ kids that get Hon Mention or Nothing that should. Kentucky has 3 teams and it's a shame some kids don't get on it. I was shocked some kids didn't get on it. Sometimes the AP All State team is different. SO, there might be a chance some kids that didn't make it may make that team.

 

We have ALL SEEN kids that are very deserving not make it that should. I thought Ray Zuberer should of easily been a Mr. Football Candidate, but at the end of the day he's not.

Just my 2 cents.

 

It was voted on by Coaches but it was not selected solely on that premise. Jason Frakes even said so earlier in this thread.

 

Ultimately the CJ decided who made the team and where they wanted them.

 

I would just anticipate a little more homework before deciding who is 1st Team.. just as CoachJ pointed out...who is/was a very well respected Coach at the HS level.. it is common knowledge the coaches voting system is flawed.

 

It is fine for the CJ to use that as a indicator to research names and help create a rough draft, but knowing the votes may be slanted by politics the CJ should take precedence to do their due diligence for the 1st team since it is the ultimate individual honor most players strive for.

 

It is impossible to name every deserving kid and not miss someone... but it is inexcusable to completely gaffe spots on the 1st Team.

 

 

With all that said, I still think by and large the team turned out fine. Defense was a bit jumbled beyond the 1st Team... but outside of a couple "Huh?????" moments the 1st Teams were pretty solid

Kent Phelps of Paintsville deserves some votes.

It was voted on by Coaches but it was not selected solely on that premise. Jason Frakes even said so earlier in this thread.

 

Ultimately the CJ decided who made the team and where they wanted them.

 

I would just anticipate a little more homework before deciding who is 1st Team.. just as CoachJ pointed out...who is/was a very well respected Coach at the HS level.. it is common knowledge the coaches voting system is flawed.

 

It is fine for the CJ to use that as a indicator to research names and help create a rough draft, but knowing the votes may be slanted by politics the CJ should take precedence to do their due diligence for the 1st team since it is the ultimate individual honor most players strive for.

 

It is impossible to name every deserving kid and not miss someone... but it is inexcusable to completely gaffe spots on the 1st Team.

 

 

With all that said, I still think by and large the team turned out fine. Defense was a bit jumbled beyond the 1st Team... but outside of a couple "Huh?????" moments the 1st Teams were pretty solid[/QUOTe]

 

I totally understand it's flaws. You don't have to educate me on that. Zuberer leads the state in passing both years and doesn't even get to be 1 of 9 players to be Mr. Football. It is what it is though. I understand the flaws.

 

BUT I would rather have coaches input then NOT!

 

When are we getting 7 on 7 back in June?

It was voted on by Coaches but it was not selected solely on that premise. Jason Frakes even said so earlier in this thread.

 

Ultimately the CJ decided who made the team and where they wanted them.

 

I would just anticipate a little more homework before deciding who is 1st Team.. just as CoachJ pointed out...who is/was a very well respected Coach at the HS level.. it is common knowledge the coaches voting system is flawed.

 

It is fine for the CJ to use that as a indicator to research names and help create a rough draft, but knowing the votes may be slanted by politics the CJ should take precedence to do their due diligence for the 1st team since it is the ultimate individual honor most players strive for.

 

It is impossible to name every deserving kid and not miss someone... but it is inexcusable to completely gaffe spots on the 1st Team.

 

 

With all that said, I still think by and large the team turned out fine. Defense was a bit jumbled beyond the 1st Team... but outside of a couple "Huh?????" moments the 1st Teams were pretty solid

 

The entire post is good. I will pull out some of the highlighted for comments.

 

 

Omissions. Yes, they are bound to happen but lets not miss top players in the states largest list that goes around 10 or more teams deep when HM is included. The biggest misses for top players is on the defense side. Its hard to understand how any defensive player with truely over 100 solo tackles in a season is missing from this list.

 

Defense always has head scratchers due to lack of solid tackle stats and not making head lines with other objective stats. A first team LB with 25 solo tackles but 150 assisted?

 

A DB on a 1A team that was undefeated in regular season and made a good run has six (6) interceptions and is not on the list anywhere. Obviously the small schools are under represented.

 

The top two (2) QBs from 6A are no where on the list? Each with over 2,600 yards. Burke from TC had a 159 efficiency rating and the most TDs passes in 6A playing in only 11 games. But omitted.

 

Multi-position, true athlete players are omitted by the strick position definition. Some 'All-Purpose' guys are definitely missing - again.

 

A kicker who made 9 of 13 FGs with a long from 45 yards is HM only?

 

The top players should already be on a list and identified. The coaches should not be used for discovery of the top players in the state - the vast bulk of that should be in hand before the first ballot goes out. There are all-city teams, all-region teams, etc. When the first team players of these teams is omitted some homework should be done.

 

When one is talking about only 36 players like the BGP team ommissions of very deserving players are very inevitable. To have bad omissions of statistically obvious top-tier players in the states largest and most publicized list with over 200 players is something that needs some fixing. Again - do not use the coaches for 'discovery', especially on defense and in the small classes.

 

Congrats to all on the list and those who should be there. Thanks to Jason for coordinating.

I will say this again and this will be the last time. Not sure how a kid that goes 46/46 on PAT's, ranks 5th all time in the state of Kentucky, goes 11/16 on FG's with a long of 46, converted over 50 consecutive and puts a high percentage of kickoffs in the endzone is only good enough to garner honorable mention.

 

Granted, I never saw the other kickers on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd teams.....but Jared Dougherty was something to see.

 

I'm going to post this and leave it here about All-State teams:

 

* Some people want it to be a list of the best college prospects in the state. If you're going to do it that way, might as well vote on the team before the season ever starts.

 

* Some people want it to be a list of the players with the best stats. But this doesn't factor in strength of schedule, players only playing 2-3 quarters because of blowouts.

 

* Some people think if you win a state championship, you should have more All-State players than other teams. But this leaves the regular season rather meaningless and doesn't factor in that some teams have much tougher playoff roads than others.

 

* Some people think if their son isn't first-team All-State, the entire list is bogus.

 

* Some people think the third-best QB in their area HAS to be better than the best QB in another area. Of course, that person never has seen EITHER QB play.

 

So many agendas. So many ways of doing it.

 

Of all the All-State teams out there, none has more people involved (126) than The Courier-Journal's.

 

No way is it perfect, NOT EVEN CLOSE. But there's no way anyone EVER is going to put out a perfect All-State team.

 

Thanks to each of you for being so passionate about the sport.

 

Great post Jason, thanks for all you do. :thumb:

 

Stats is a part of it...but more importantly to me is the fact he played less than Half of the year... and when he did play probably 2/3 of his snaps were lined up as a LB

 

Once again, no denying he is a great football player and "All-State" worthy as a Football Player in general... but solely speaking as a D-Linemen I cannot come close to considering him above several names that were left off the First Team list who proved themselves over the entire course of the season.

 

Just so I am completely transparent... I have no dog left in this fight because the one Belfry kid who I would be advocating for is already on the list in Horton...

 

With that said, there is no way I can give the edge to someone who only essentially played 5 games and maybe had a handful of TFL's compared to this kid who was basically the heartbeat of his team and probably had 10+ sacks and was possibly the best Defensive Player in Class 2A all season:

Senior highlights - Maleek Lawrence highlights

 

Thanks for your support of Maleek, I to thought he would be higher than HM, but that's the way it goes. It was an absolute pleasure to watch this young man in action the past 3 years, he will be greatly missed.

Kent Phelps of Paintsville deserves some votes.

Congrats to all of the kids that made it a lot of great kids on there. Thank you to the coaches that took time to vote.

Not slamming the list just sharing 2 I think should have defiantly made it.

Kent Phelps+Luke Trimble. 2/3 of 3 headed monster that kept their team #1 majority of the season. 3 yrs ago same program was 2nd from last!

Phelps (RB) do it all RB will be on the short list for Mr Football next year!! Led KY Baseball Club out of Lex in batting this Summer. Will get D1 football and baseball offers. 1,700+ total yds 22 TD's this year.

Trimble (DB)4yr starter both ways 12 int's(7 this yr w 4 pick 6's).7 fumble recoveries. Ave 14yds a carry 15 yds a catch regular season. 2,200 all purpose yds 28career TD's. 5yr starter at Point Guard and multiple state track appearances.

Phelps (Jr)had visits to schools like Vandy/UK/Marshall this yr.

Trimble (Talks w Air Force along w in state schools).

2 great student athletes most defiantly deserving of honorable mention at worst! Both top football players in KY but also excellent multi sport athletes with close to 4.0 GPA's!

IMO BGP has always been the best. Anxious for it to come out.

It's tough to choose. I appreciate the work Jason put in. Feel like these 2 earned the right to be recognized tonight too. It's over but fun hudl highlights that speak for themselves..

 

Senior Season Highlights - Luke Trimble highlights

 

Junior Season Highlights - Kent Phelps highlights

Edited December 29, 201510 yr by stick1

Wilde, South Warren

Horton, Belfry

Lawrence, NewCath

 

Any All-State list without those three on the DL is simply incorrect

 

I can't comment on the other two, I have no knowledge of them, but I absolutely agree with LAWRENCE of NCC, he's one of the best I e seen in a long time!

wonder what an all state team by class would look like?

Graham Ashkettle from South Oldham. At 6'5"/285 lbs, All-District OL and DL, he did an outstanding job on both sides of the ball. Consistently double teamed on defense allowing LB's to make the play. Great blocking for one of the top offenses in the state. Along with numerous others, both on and off the list, deserving of recognition.