:popcorn:

Bush didn't go it alone , he had the total ( near) full support of the Senate , inc Kerry Biden Clinton and the dems . . So you can try to rewrite history all you want . Most people know better .

Yet only Bush "lied". That line is so old and so wrong. Ugh...

The manipulation of the unemployment figures is just a joke. Only the government could compute the unemployment rate the way it does. To not count people who have basically given up is just lying to the US population. Anyone who thinks that REAL unemployment in this country is 5% is not paying attention. It is at least double that.

 

The original poster also failed to mention the national debt. When Obama was running for president the first time, he called Bush letting the debt get to $8 trillion "un-American". What would he call a $20 trillion debt??

 

His foreign policy has basically been a disaster IMO. You have to look long and hard to find a country that has improved relations with the US since he took over. Our allies don't trust Obama that much and our enemies think he is incredibly weak...and they are right. To blame Bush for Isis is a joke. Obama could have quashed Isis like a bug if he would have listened to his advisors when he was calling them the JV team...instead he did nothing and let them get to where they are now. That is not Bush's fault.

'Tis amusing how either side can spin an analysis of all of the complexities with such an assumed authoritative approach and be so certain that what they offer as being the indisputable truth and reality as if it is a proven science, while both sides only aim to see things from some singular lopsided so called absolute correct perspective ignoring that the details of it all are a million times more complex than successfully completing the task of a rubik's cube.

 

For anyone to think that their position is so right on and solid, no matter how informed that they believe that they are, is at the very least a demonstration in delusionality, and an over inflated image of self worth and knowledge.

 

IF there were a position that could be nailed with complete knowledge and accuracy, it's a guarantee that the factors are so varied and endless that no one could absolutely and indisputably identify it, but nonetheless it is entertaining to watch people try, and to see them believe that they're on to something.

 

Continue to study hard all of the variables and pick and choose the ones that support and justify your aims and views, and by the time you are taking your last breath your head will be filled with so many details that add up to nothing.

 

Dead or alive the world will continue to spin, and good luck being the one who has the almighty power to alter it.

 

...And the band played on...

 

'Tis amusing how either side can spin an analysis of all of the complexities with such an assumed authoritative approach and be so certain that what they offer as being the indisputable truth and reality as if it is a proven science, while both sides only aim to see things from some singular lopsided so called absolute correct perspective ignoring that the details of it all are a million times more complex than successfully completing the task of a rubik's cube.

 

For anyone to think that their position is so right on and solid, no matter how informed that they believe that they are, is at the very least a demonstration in delusionality, and an over inflated image of self worth and knowledge.

 

IF there were a position that could be nailed with complete knowledge and accuracy, it's a guarantee that the factors are so varied and endless that no one could absolutely and indisputably identify it, but nonetheless it is entertaining to watch people try, and to see them believe that they're on to something.

 

Continue to study hard all of the variables and pick and choose the ones that support and justify your aims and views, and by the time you are taking your last breath your head will be filled with so many details that add up to nothing.

 

Dead or alive the world will continue to spin, and good luck being the one who has the almighty power to alter it.

 

...And the band played on...

 

 

This is up for my favorite post of the year. It says exactly what has been jumbled in my head for a long time. :thumb:

Bush didn't go it alone , he had the total ( near) full support of the Senate , inc Kerry Biden Clinton and the dems . . So you can try to rewrite history all you want . Most people know better .

 

Full support based upon misinformation!

:popcorn:

 

Me too ... :popcorn:

Full support based upon misinformation!

 

From the intel community.

 

You guys give Obama a pass on faulty intel, does Bush not get the same consideration?

Our security or one of our allies, Yes! The American taxpayer does not need to fund the world's police force, especially when such action typically harmful to US security. I think you need to refresh your memory on our support of Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan when the Russians invaded or fighting a war in Vietnam in support of a government that was rejected by its own people. Foreign interventionism almost always creates more problems and more security risk than it solves.

 

So if im reading you right, you are saying that we should only be concerned with the basic human rights of ourselves and our allies? I'm sorry, I thought you were liberal? Maybe you are just more hardline conservative than I, but your baseless and rudimentary trashing of W makes that seem unlikely. If you are, in fact, a liberal, do you not see the hypocracy in what you just said? We should only fight for the human rights of ourselves and our allies, yet we are going to let thousands of Syrian refugess come across our border?

 

And for what its worth, I am very aware of our support for Bin Laden, and that goes to prove my earlier point that situation context is of utmost importance when examining a policy. At the time we were supporting Bin Laden, we were doing so because we wanted to keep Russian influence out of the region. We figured that it would favor us better to keep Bin Laden in power temporarily, than Russia to move in and assert its will. Bin Laden would have, and was, much easier to take down than Russia would have been.

This is up for my favorite post of the year. It says exactly what has been jumbled in my head for a long time. :thumb:

 

Thanks, and I feel ya brother. After years of perpetual debate it too has been jumbled in my head for a long time, and I finally needed to take a shot at formulating it into words. I thought that perhaps I might've been stumbling at conveying it, but it pleases me to know that you can relate to what I'm trying to say.

 

These things that I've said here were also directed at myself, as for a time I too have attempted to pinpoint some sound political position as if anything that I could arrive at would be solid, only to discover that I was just grasping at straws.

 

We're all somehow encouraged to take positions as if it were the responsible adult thing to do, and then it eventually dawned on me that I'm not really obligated to, and that I had been expiring a lot of energy on a mostly futile task of making sense of it all while trying to hang my hat on something concrete.

 

The world's issues are way too big of a beast for me to tackle, and while many will have deeply rooted opposing views, the presence of them, though possibly having some merit, appears to only serve as an impasse, and with that I'm not sure much ground can be gained, and all the while one's seemingly gained ground always appears to be someone else's step backward.

 

IF there were one true answer and solution for all of humanity, it would still be a giant task to have all ever be in agreement on it.

 

My head aches pondering how that could ever be plausible.

 

And FWIW as I was wrapping up my last couple of sentences here, this song entered my mind.

 

I didn't plan to soundtrack everyone of my posts in this thread with song, nor am I attempting to make a heavy spiritual statement, but music more than not is how my mind works, so what the heck...

 

Thanks, and I feel ya brother. After years of perpetual debate it too has been jumbled in my head for a long time, and I finally needed to take a shot at formulating it into words. I thought that perhaps I might've been stumbling at conveying it, but it pleases me to know that you can relate to what I'm trying to say.

 

These things that I've said here were also directed at myself, as for a time I too have attempted to pinpoint some sound political position as if anything that I could arrive at would be solid, only to discover that I was just grasping at straws.

 

We're all somehow encouraged to take positions as if it were the responsible adult thing to do, and then it eventually dawned on me that I'm not really obligated to, and that I had been expiring a lot of energy on a mostly futile task of making sense of it all while trying to hang my hat on something concrete.

 

The world's issues are way too big of a beast for me to tackle, and while many will have deeply rooted opposing views, the presence of them, though possibly having some merit, appears to only serve as an impasse, and with that I'm not sure much ground can be gained, and all the while one's seemingly gained ground always appears to be someone else's step backward.

 

IF there were one true answer and solution for all of humanity, it would still be a giant task to have all ever be in agreement on it.

 

My head aches pondering how that could ever be plausible.

 

And FWIW as I was wrapping up my last couple of sentences here, this song entered my mind.

 

I didn't plan to soundtrack everyone of my posts in this thread with song, nor am I attempting to make a heavy spiritual statement, but music more than not is how my mind works, so what the heck...

 

Amen. I, too, recognize that I am as guilty as anyone else this.

 

FWIW, I am a sister, not a brother, though.

Thanks, and I feel ya brother.

She ain't a brother, brother. :lol2:

Amen. I, too, recognize that I am as guilty as anyone else this.

 

FWIW, I am a sister, not a brother, though.

 

Ah, ya beat me to it!

So if im reading you right, you are saying that we should only be concerned with the basic human rights of ourselves and our allies? I'm sorry, I thought you were liberal?

 

Surely one can be a domestic liberal and a realist or isolationist in foreign policy just as one can be a domestic conservative and an idealistic interventionist in foreign policy (George W. Bush is indicative of this).

Amen. I, too, recognize that I am as guilty as anyone else this.

 

FWIW, I am a sister, not a brother, though.

 

Wow sister, how did I not know this!?

 

My bad... and after all of this time...

 

I need to pay closer attention.

 

I made the same goof up with hoops5 awhile back as well.