I agree with this post 100%

 

I have always believed the QB gets way too much credit for the teams success or failure.

Brady didn't even deserve the MVP last night as he was not very good when he couldn't dink and dunk. Anytime he threw downfield it was not very good. I thought Edleman should have won the MVP if a Patriot got the MVP.

 

He was following the game plan. They didn't want to throw downfield against the Seattle secondary. He looked great on the 22 yard touchdown to Gronk when he did try to go downfield. From Josh McDaniel:

To counter the Seahawks' Cover 1 and Cover 3 zones, McDaniels knew he had to come up with something creative. He used a system of short passes in which one receiver cleared out the area underneath a zone so another could get into a seam. "The way they play their zones, they give you very little room to operate, so we had to come up with some ways to get some space," McDaniels said.

 

He's been MVP in 3 of the 4 Patriots Super Bowl wins...that doesn't sound like he just won because of the defense to me. He threw 4 touchdown passes yesterday. 4. And you think Edelman should have been MVP?

So having 2 losses is better than having 0 losses in the SB and still having 4 SB wins?

 

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Also if you are simply comparing the number of SB's Brady has been to then you missed my earlier post. Otto Graham led his team to the championship game every year he played and won 7 out of 10 of them. That would mean Brady would have to win 3 more SB's before he retires to even equal that feat.

 

I believe many want to put Tom Brady as the greatest ever simply because he is the one playing today that people can see. That is not a good reason to label him the greatest ever. You need to go by facts which is being ignored.

 

How does that not make much sense? Your saying four super bowl titles and zero losses is better than 4 super bowl title and two super bowl losses? So you are discrediting Brady since he made two more super bowls than Montana could get to? Yeah that makes sense.

 

As for Graham I can't remember how many teams were in the league back then? Also what other facts are ignored? The fact that most of Bradys career he hasn't had much talent on offense to work with and still made super bowls. Then when he did have talent on offense to work with he had his offense as one of the best ever and broke records. He has done it with and without talent to work with. In a day when yes the rules are easier however the players they are throwing against are much stronger, much faster, and probably even better pass rushes and definitely much tougher defenses and schemes to read and play against. Was there zone blitzes back then? Or just any crazy rushes from all angles back then to prepare for? The overall mental aspect is also much tougher today and also the players. So even though the rules have helped offense some let's not forget the other facts of also how things also are harder today for qbs to in all other areas.

I do agree with this. I told everyone that either Edelman or Butler deserved the MVP award, but you knew it was going to Brady. I don't think he played great, but he did play a hell of a game. He had a 74% completion percentage, threw for over 300 yards and 4 TDs. He had 2 bad plays all night, and one of those was a ridiculously good play by Bobby Wagner.

 

He got all those yards and the high compl % by throwing 0-5 yard quick passes in the flats etc. He didn't get those numbers by throwing down-field. He really wasn't very good when he had to stretch the field. Edelman gave him a ton of yards after the catch all night and is why if it wasn't for Edelman I don't think the Patriots are even in the game at the end. Out of those 300 yards, how many were from downfield throws? He had more than 2 bad throws. He missed some wide open guys also besides those interceptions.

He got all those yards and the high compl % by throwing 0-5 yard quick passes in the flats etc. He didn't get those numbers by throwing down-field. He really wasn't very good when he had to stretch the field. Edelman gave him a ton of yards after the catch all night and is why if it wasn't for Edelman I don't think the Patriots are even in the game at the end. Out of those 300 yards, how many were from downfield throws? He had more than 2 bad throws. He missed some wide open guys also besides those interceptions.

 

You can spin it anyway it makes you feel better, but Brady played a good game sans a couple throws. The first pick he threw and when he missed Edelman on the goal line the first time. Other than that, he was extremely effective.

How does that not make much sense? Your saying four super bowl titles and zero losses is better than 4 super bowl title and two super bowl losses? So you are discrediting Brady since he made two more super bowls than Montana could get to? Yeah that makes sense.

 

As for Graham I can't remember how many teams were in the league back then? Also what other facts are ignored? The fact that most of Bradys career he hasn't had much talent on offense to work with and still made super bowls. Then when he did have talent on offense to work with he had his offense as one of the best ever and broke records. He has done it with and without talent to work with. In a day when yes the rules are easier however the players they are throwing against are much stronger, much faster, and probably even better pass rushes and definitely much tougher defenses and schemes to read and play against. Was there zone blitzes back then? Or just any crazy rushes from all angles back then to prepare for? The overall mental aspect is also much tougher today and also the players. So even though the rules have helped offense some let's not forget the other facts of also how things also are harder today for qbs to in all other areas.

 

You touched on something that you seem to ignore. You state the Brady didn't have a lot of talent around him in all his super bowls. That also plays into the point that the defense was the reason he won the majority of those 4 super bowls, including last night. Something that is very telling that is being overlooked is the fact that many would say the most talent he has had on offense in his super bowls are the 2 he actually lost. Those two are also when his defense wasn't as good as the other years. That should say something also don't you think?

 

You want to talk about his 6 SB's then why don't you give Graham credit for his 10 championship games?

There were 12-13 teams when Graham played and the most that ever made the playoffs were 4 and several times only 2 made the playoffs which is a lower percentage of teams that make the post season than during Brady's era.

You can spin it anyway it makes you feel better, but Brady played a good game sans a couple throws. The first pick he threw and when he missed Edelman on the goal line the first time. Other than that, he was extremely effective.

 

No spinning at all. He was very effective with the dink and dunk passes. I don't think anyone has said he wasn't. That is all they needed to do to beat the Seahawks which is good because the few times he had to throw down field he was unsuccessful. That is basically all I have said and not spinning anything, just presenting facts. If you think I am spinning anything then tell me how many passes he was able to complete on the few that he threw down the field. Don't mistake facts with spinning.

13-15 for 2 TD's in the 4th quarter and 8-8 for a TD on that final drive. This against a defense they were ready to crown one of, if not the best ever had they pulled it out. You can spin it however you want, but if the game is on the line I want Tom Brady with the ball over any other QB to ever play.

He was following the game plan. They didn't want to throw downfield against the Seattle secondary. He looked great on the 22 yard touchdown to Gronk when he did try to go downfield. From Josh McDaniel:

To counter the Seahawks' Cover 1 and Cover 3 zones, McDaniels knew he had to come up with something creative. He used a system of short passes in which one receiver cleared out the area underneath a zone so another could get into a seam. "The way they play their zones, they give you very little room to operate, so we had to come up with some ways to get some space," McDaniels said.

 

He's been MVP in 3 of the 4 Patriots Super Bowl wins...that doesn't sound like he just won because of the defense to me. He threw 4 touchdown passes yesterday. 4. And you think Edelman should have been MVP?

Yes Edelman should have been MVP. I'm not the only one who thinks like that also. It was mentioned after the game on every broadcast on the radio and even on ESPN afterwards. MVP's don't mean much, it's more of a popularity contest than anything.

I Dont get people now questioning the passes Brady threw yesterday because there were not to many down field. You Dont throw down field just to throw.Seattles defense is weakest in the middle and so the Pats took advantage of what they gave them. Let's not forget this defense demolished last years super bowl participant and was one of the best again this year. So if someone throws 4 TDs with a 70 completion percentage and over 300 yards with basically a bunch of slot receivers, running backs and a te that is impressive. He missed a few throws but even the one pick I would say was just a great play by that defender.

You can spin it anyway it makes you feel better, but Brady played a good game sans a couple throws. The first pick he threw and when he missed Edelman on the goal line the first time. Other than that, he was extremely effective.

 

This is where fantasy football (i.e. stats) and the way the game is played today skews performance and perception. I didn't think Brady played bad, I thought he was just average by his standards, but the numbers reflect as if he shredded a defense. It was the Patriots' way of running the football since they could not establish it. His average completion was 6.5 yards and QBR was 81, not 98. Not knocking him, I just didn't view it as an all time great display like many saw it. He is the orchestrator and he did so in true Brady fashion. "Effective" is probably the best way to describe his game.

He didn't miss many. He completed 74% of his passes for goodness sakes. :lol2:

 

I know he completed at least 4. The TD to Gronk, the 21 yard completion to Edelman on the 3rd and 14, and then he also hit Gronk with 2 other passes that were 10+ yards down field on the final scoring drive.

I Dont get people now questioning the passes Brady threw yesterday because there were not to many down field. You Dont throw down field just to throw.Seattles defense is weakest in the middle and so the Pats took advantage of what they gave them. Let's not forget this defense demolished last years super bowl participant and was one of the best again this year. So if someone throws 4 TDs with a 70 completion percentage and over 300 yards with basically a bunch of slot receivers, running backs and a te that is impressive. He missed a few throws but even the one pick I would say was just a great play by that defender.

No offense, but Seattle's best three DBs were hobbled, and nickel back was lost after he picked off Brady. If there was a time for that secondary to be torched downfield, it was yesterday. I can't compare it to last season's Superbowl team.

13-15 for 2 TD's in the 4th quarter and 8-8 for a TD on that final drive. This against a defense they were ready to crown one of, if not the best ever had they pulled it out. You can spin it however you want, but if the game is on the line I want Tom Brady with the ball over any other QB to ever play.

 

In the Super Bowl I'd take Eli or Joe Montana.

 

People seem to forget that 4 of Seattle's DB's were hurt in the game. Seattle had the best defense in the league the entire season. They were also healthy then. You can't overlook the fact that 4 of their starting DB's were hurt. One of them had to leave the game after his interception with a broken arm. So you can spin it any way you like also and try and make it out as if the Patriots were up against the same defense Seattle had all year if you like.

Ahh, now come the injury excuses. Yep, they were hurt. So what? Teams deal with injuries all the time.

In the Super Bowl I'd take Eli or Joe Montana.

 

People seem to forget that 4 of Seattle's DB's were hurt in the game. Seattle had the best defense in the league the entire season. They were also healthy then. You can't overlook the fact that 4 of their starting DB's were hurt. One of them had to leave the game after his interception with a broken arm. So you can spin it any way you like also and try and make it out as if the Patriots were up against the same defense Seattle had all year if you like.

You just said you'd take Eli over Tom Brady. I quoted it, so you couldn't edit it. Again, you just said you'd take Eli over Tom Brady.