February 2, 201511 yr I agree with everything you are saying here but keep in mind that the same rules that apply to Brady now apply to all the other QB's too...and in 13 years he has been on the winning SB team 4 times, been to the SB 6 times and has been to the AFC Championship 9 times. In an era of parity, his team seems to be at the top almost every year. And Eli Manning is 2 fo 2 in Super Bowls. I agree Brady is in the conversation. I don't see it as a slam dunk.
February 2, 201511 yr I'd say he's definitely top 5. But I think when you get there either one of the 5 have a case to be the best ever. Montana Elway Johnny U Brady Marino Anyone of these guys could be number 1.
February 2, 201511 yr No doubt there are several QB's in the conversation and some have better tools than Brady. Brady's SB record breaks any ties for me as that's why they play the game.
February 2, 201511 yr No doubt there are several QB's in the conversation and some have better tools than Brady. Brady's SB record breaks any ties for me as that's why they play the game. So having 2 losses is better than having 0 losses in the SB and still having 4 SB wins? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Also if you are simply comparing the number of SB's Brady has been to then you missed my earlier post. Otto Graham led his team to the championship game every year he played and won 7 out of 10 of them. That would mean Brady would have to win 3 more SB's before he retires to even equal that feat. I believe many want to put Tom Brady as the greatest ever simply because he is the one playing today that people can see. That is not a good reason to label him the greatest ever. You need to go by facts which is being ignored.
February 2, 201511 yr I don't ever remember growing up (born in 1959) hearing about how many rings so-and-so won.That's because you are older than dirt and nobdy had rings back then.
February 2, 201511 yr If you are going to use Super Bowls as the gauge in which you measure QB's. Then I would say the greatest QB ever who has ever played would be Otto Graham who only played 10 years but had his Browns in 10 straight championship games and winning 7 of them. That is something Brady doesn't even come close to. The reason many don't even think of Graham is because he didn't play in the ESPN era where only athletes today can be considered the best ever. Give me Graham's record over any QB in the history of the game. He led his team to the championship game every year from 1946-1955 winning 7 of those championship games. Graham finished his career with a 114-20 record. That would be the greatest if everyone is so much in a hurry to crown a player that plays today. How about measuring that QB with all the QB's in the history of the game? GreyFox: You beat me to the punch. I couldn't have said it better. I was waiting for this thread to get started so I could argue for Graham. I am so up on Graham I can't help but repeat some of the things you already said... had his team in the championship game every season he played (10) and won 7 of them. Has highest winning percentage by far. He passed his team to the championship and ran his team to the championship. He was a hard-nosed player. Greatest competitor to ever play the game. Automatic Otto gets the nod as greatest quarterback ever and it isn't even close--based on the most important statistic in the game, some would say the only statistic that matters--Wins!
February 2, 201511 yr Most Super Bowl appearances in NFL history? Check Most Super Bowl victories for a QB in NFL history? Check (tied) Most playoff completions in NFL history? Check Most postseason passing yards in NFL history? Check Most postseason TDs in NFL history? Check Most wins in NFL postseason history? Check 5th most passing yards in NFL history 5th most pass completions in NFL history 5th most TDs in NFL history 3rd most game-winning drives in NFL history 3rd most comeback wins in NFL history Hard to argue with greatness. I'll give people Elway and Montana, but Brady's right there with them. Obviously I'm biased, I'd rank them Brady, Montana, Elway, but those 3 in any order can't really be argued IMO.
February 2, 201511 yr Old school quarterbacks often looked like this: YA Tittle--NY Giants. That was when they didn't coddle the quarterback like they do now.
February 2, 201511 yr That doesn't make a lot of sense. Also if you are simply comparing the number of SB's Brady has been to then you missed my earlier post. Otto Graham led his team to the championship game So having 2 losses is better than having 0 losses in the SB and still having 4 SB wins? every year he played and won 7 out of 10 of them. That would mean Brady would have to win 3 more SB's before he retires to even equal that feat. I believe many want to put Tom Brady as the greatest ever simply because he is the one playing today that people can see. That is not a good reason to label him the greatest ever. You need to go by facts which is being ignored. Yes, getting there 6 times and winning 4 is better than getting your team there 4 times. Much better. Add in the skill set of today's players and yes, Brady is much better than Graham.
February 2, 201511 yr Most Super Bowl appearances in NFL history? Check Most Super Bowl victories for a QB in NFL history? Check (tied) Most playoff completions in NFL history? Check Most postseason passing yards in NFL history? Check Most postseason TDs in NFL history? Check Most wins in NFL postseason history? Check 5th most passing yards in NFL history 5th most pass completions in NFL history 5th most TDs in NFL history 3rd most game-winning drives in NFL history 3rd most comeback wins in NFL history Hard to argue with greatness. I'll give people Elway and Montana, but Brady's right there with them. Obviously I'm biased, I'd rank them Brady, Montana, Elway, but those 3 in any order can't really be argued IMO. Most championship game appearances? uncheck Most consecutive championship appearances? uncheck Most championship game victories? uncheck Overall winning percentage? uncheck Integrity? Make no mistake about it, Tom Brady is a great quarterback. But he ain't no Otto Graham.
February 2, 201511 yr Yes, getting there 6 times and winning 4 is better than getting your team there 4 times. Much better. Add in the skill set of today's players and yes, Brady is much better than Graham. Better read that again. Graham was in 10 title games and won 7. He was in a title game EVERY year he played! Brady's achievements, though very impressive, do not stack up to Graham's.
February 2, 201511 yr Better read that again. Graham was in 10 title games and won 7. He was in a title game EVERY year he played! Brady's achievements, though very impressive, do not stack up to Graham's. Sorry, I have little respect for what the NFL was producing in the way of talented teams back then. I heavily favor the league of today over the past, therefore I take the modern players over the past players.
February 2, 201511 yr Sorry, I have little respect for what the NFL was producing in the way of talented teams back then. I heavily favor the league of today over the past, therefore I take the modern players over the past players. Weren't there only like 10 teams back then?
February 2, 201511 yr Weren't there only like 10 teams back then? About 10 in the 40's, a couple more in the early 50's. Not that I remember personally.
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