I give him credit for that. You stated you wanted to talk about facts and I am sharing them with you. What Graham did in his era was great no doubt. However if we are going to count those championships then I guess we should start counting championships won by guys in the CFL or the leagues in Europe or any other professional league. This league came the great league it is once the leagues combined right? So if we want to count things before that then we need to count every professional league besides the NFL.

 

I think they showed a stat that Brady had the most come back victories in the post season correct? Even in the two super bowl losses he led his teams down to scores that would have won them the game if not for the defense. Also since you want to talk about defenses. The steelers super bowls in the 70s were mostly cause of the defense correct? The Montana 49ers I believe had very good defenses but I can't remember. However the last few super bowls he won came with having the best wide receiver of all time. So all teams had other things that helped those guys win super bowls. Brady has the post season stats, numbers and wins. He has had the regular season wins and stats and records too when he had talent to throw to like others. So he has the super bowls but that's not all he has.

 

Why are you all of a sudden going to the CFL or any other league. We are talking about Professional Football in America plain and simple.

 

If you are so bent on trying to spin it to include any football league in the world, then show me any league where a QB led their team to the championship game in whatever league you want to invent for 10 straight years. You want to spin it that way then at least present some facts to back up your claims.

 

Show us all any league that accomplished what Otto Graham accomplished.

Bradshaw didn't lose one either. And won 4.

 

He sure did. I wouldn't take him over any of the two I listed though.

 

So did you see where I said in the post you quoted, Super Bowl games? You made it out to sound as if I said I'd take Eli over Brady anytime.

 

You are forgiven for the mistake.

I take the "most comeback" stats differently than most. It is an accumulatory stat in that Brady has probably played in more games than most. Which in itself is impressive.

I take the "most comeback" stats differently than most. It is an accumulatory stat in that Brady has probably played in more games than most. Which in itself is impressive.

 

Right. Because 75% success rate in those situations is just run of the mill...:lol2:

Most 4th quarter comeback wins in NFL playoff history. He's had the ball down in the 4th quarter 12 times in the postseason. 9 of those have ended in Patriots victories. Those balls aren't deflated. :lol2:

Last night would be the only time you could say they weren't :clap: before that, not so much.

I love Montana and thought Bradshaw was very good (not great) but by using that logic, you are saying it is better for your legacy to lose in the playoffs before the SB than it is to get to the SB and lose the SB. Makes no sense...

 

And let's not forget. It took a fantastic goal line stand in Super Bowl XVI and a dropped Lewis Billups INT for Montana to win. If Billups catches the ball, John Taylor doesn't catch the next pass, and Montana is 3-1 in the Super Bowl. If the Bengals score in Super Bowl XVI, the whole complexion of that game changes. He could be 2-2.

Sorry, I have little respect for what the NFL was producing in the way of talented teams back then. I heavily favor the league of today over the past, therefore I take the modern players over the past players.

 

He wasn't playing in the NFL back then. He spent most of that time in the AAFC.

I said when the SB is on the line I'd take Eli or Montana over Brady.

 

The reason is, neither one of them have ever lost a SB and both have had to make 4th qtr come from behind wins with time running out.

 

Don't try and say I'd take Eli over Brady any other time as you are trying to make it sound like. Read my first line of that post. It states Super Bowl.

 

In the Super Bowls Eli has won everytime he has played in one. He also won them over Tom Brady Both Times. Montana has never lost a SB. Brady lost two of them, and may I add again, he lost both to Eli Manning.

 

Hasn't like each of the Pats super bowls been decided by four points or less or something like that. In two of them Brady led them down to field goals to win the game. The first giants game he did before the giants answered with one of the best catches ever. Then last night they are down ten to one of the best defenses and probably best secondary in the NFL and in the last two drives he gets two touchdowns and I don't think any incompletions.

 

Its amazing you discredit him for two super bowl losses lol. So with your argument its like saying if those teams lost in the AFC championship games instead of losing in the super bowl it would have made Brady look better? Wow. Discrediting even making the super bowl lol. Makes no sense.

He sure did. I wouldn't take him over any of the two I listed though.

 

So did you see where I said in the post you quoted, Super Bowl games? You made it out to sound as if I said I'd take Eli over Brady anytime.

 

You are forgiven for the mistake.

I did. But I've also read all of your posts in this thread.

 

And I forgive you for thinking I was mistaken.

Right. Because 75% success rate in those situations is just run of the mill...:lol2:

 

That is not really what I was getting at, but ok. I was giving him props for always being in the playoffs and subsequently winning to have that opportunity.

I Dont get people now questioning the passes Brady threw yesterday because there were not to many down field. You Dont throw down field just to throw.Seattles defense is weakest in the middle and so the Pats took advantage of what they gave them. Let's not forget this defense demolished last years super bowl participant and was one of the best again this year. So if someone throws 4 TDs with a 70 completion percentage and over 300 yards with basically a bunch of slot receivers, running backs and a te that is impressive. He missed a few throws but even the one pick I would say was just a great play by that defender.

 

TV showed a stat: Seattle's defense is first overall in scoring, pass, yards and 3rd against the run, if I remember correctly. They have some studs all over the place, and they play with reckless abandon...and that is why they are also highly penalized...they go beyond pushing the envelope of the rules consistently. Brady and his team did EXACTLY what they needed to do to beat them as Seattle loaded up to stop the run and get a high pass rush leaving the short passes very open. Brady took some hits too, especially after he had released the ball.

I did. But I've also read all of your posts in this thread.

 

That's good. Still missing your point.

 

You are upset because someone thinks there are better SB QB's than Tom Brady?

I apologize, but I'm not following you or what the point is you are trying to make.

 

I'm wrong because I said Eli in the SB or Montana in the SB I would rather have? Montana who have never lost a SB game and has led comebacks in the last minute to win, or Eli who has done the same and has beaten Tom Brady both times? That is what your point is? I'm sorry if I disagree, but I think it's a sound reason myself.

 

No one is attacking Brady, this has gotten to the point that if anyone doesn't think Brady is the best who ever lived that they are just crazy. I will simply bow out of this silly argument because I respect your opinion just as I do others but I will not act as if anyone who has a different opinion is purely insane which is the vibe I am getting from you and some others.

Yes Edelman should have been MVP. I'm not the only one who thinks like that also. It was mentioned after the game on every broadcast on the radio and even on ESPN afterwards. MVP's don't mean much, it's more of a popularity contest than anything.

 

Ask Russell Wilson how easy those "Dink and Dunk" in the red zone are. The guy threw 4 touchdown passes to 4 different receivers. MVP.

It is nearly impossible to transplant guys from years back and expect them to perform in today's climate. It was a different time and by pure evolution and regiments, humans are physically faster and stronger. All of them. So by virtue of that alone Brady is better, but in 50 years are we going to say the thing about Brady, et al.?

 

In this era of capped football it is all about organizational efficiency and that starts with the owner and trickles down to the players. Brady has guided the player vessel as well as anyone during this time. I would not have knocked Brady a notch had Seattle scored on that last possession. I didn't think he looked all that great yesterday, just ok. It was a dink-and-dunk fest with a low degree of difficulty. In 4 of the 6 Superbowls he has played, I thought Brady was just ok to below the "all time great" standards bestowed upon him.

 

I don't get the low degree of difficulty. In the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl, down by 10, he went 12-15 for 134 yards and 2 TDs, effectively gutting what many considered a historic defense. A couple of his throws, the TD to Amendola particularly, were incredible throws w/ a high level of difficulty. Additionally, isn't the mark of a great QB one who does what it takes to win the game? Seattle takes away the deep ball and the middle of the field. They leave open the flats w/ their 3 deep. Shouldn't you take advantage of that? Do QBs have to complete X amount of 20 yard plus passes to have had a great game?

Why are you all of a sudden going to the CFL or any other league. We are talking about Professional Football in America plain and simple.

 

If you are so bent on trying to spin it to include any football league in the world, then show me any league where a QB led their team to the championship game in whatever league you want to invent for 10 straight years. You want to spin it that way then at least present some facts to back up your claims.

 

Show us all any league that accomplished what Otto Graham accomplished.

 

Just pointing out how using things before the merger is weaker because the league in general is not as strong just like the leagues I just mentioned.